difference between a trade gun and fowler?

So I think I'm more confused than when we started. Now it sounds like a trade gun is a cheaper fowler. So let me ask it this way. In modern day with no concern for hc/pc what would make someone buy a trade gun over a fowling piece.

A lot of folks on this board write about using guns to hunt turkey and deer (not necessarily in that order). A trade gun is pretty good for that. Folks are also looking for very American historic guns, and while there were certainly fowlers in the colonies, the concept is definitely headed toward the British game gun, which are fine wing shooting guns, but on the wrong side of the War of Independence.

maybe this will help, Savage made a combo gun as did Drilling shotgun/rifle combo. it filled a small niche for hunters that wanted one gun and to be as versital as possible, to hunt feather, fur, and meat. on the frontier, you had to travel light. today a trade gun is able to shoot bird shot, buck shot and ball. its short enough to use from a horse. its simple design is easy to maintain on extended field trips. its a niche gun, that fills the needs of some well.

"Cheap"is relative. A Hawkin rifle cost about $25, more then the average 'middle class' person made in a month. A Leman trade rifle cost about $12 A trade fusil cost around $10. That's about $1000 buying power in todays money. There is not a 1:1 cost to todays cost to figure the price. You could buy developed land for $10 an acre. At one time beaver sold for 4-6 a plew. A HBC blanket cost 3.5 to 4 plew. Back in the 70s I sold beaver for $25. and a HBC blanket cost about $100, the same price,just different numbers.

As has been mentioned most fowlers were large bore, 12 ga. or bigger, often purchased by upper middle class and mostly used for sport. Most often associated with “wild fowl” hunting.

Trade guns were day to day tools expected to be used daily with either shot or ball. They had to be inexpensive, rugged and were often 20 ga. or smaller. They were the common gun of the voyageur, French trapper/trader and the native peoples.

The smaller weight and size suited the native cultures whose hunting traditions were based on the bow and arrow.

Smooth rifles were just that, rifles that were built or their barrels reamed smooth for shot or ball.

To put it in more modern parlance, todays hunters will use the latest firearms they can afford. The few cowboy/ranchers and trappers often have a simple lever action 30-30 in their scabbard.

Very well said

Ditto.

One thing, fowlers were normally built and purchased one at a time.
Trade guns were usually ordered by the hundred.

shotgunner87 said:

To those of you who know more about this stuff than me. What is the difference between a trade gun and a fowler? Is a trade gun more like a smooth rifle or a different animal entirely?

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Trade Guns changed over time and location.
The Hudson's Bay trade gun is certainly not a fowler. They are more like a cheap light musket. The type G was a little different and had a more refined buttplate than the bent sheet brass of the NW gun, but all were cheap light muskets. A fowler was generally better quality some were very nice. I have often wondered what the "elegant Fusil" mention in the Lewis and Clark Journals was like. Perhaps it was a chiefs grade guns?.

The Track of The Wolf website likely has photos.

Dan

A trade gun is by definition, a gun of lesser value traded for something of higher value.
They were traded for centuries and all across the Globe wherever there was valuable trade.
The models of trade guns depended on who was trading them, when and where.

I understand the concept of a trade gun. My question is more of architecturally and how the gun handles in comparison. Maybe I wasn't very clear in the initial question. So maybe it boils down to is a trade gun just a cheaper fowler or are they different animals entirely? Seems like they are different animals from the posts and I thank you all for your help and insight. Just trying to figure out what I want to build. want a smoothy and was leaning towards a 16ga english or colonial fowler but also like the look of the fusil d chase so was just trying to figure out if I was going to be giving anything up in terms of wingshooting if I went with the french trade gun. Initially the gun will probably be used for everything but depending on how this goes I have plans for at least two rifles.

It's highly subjective.... :haha:

perhaps if you made a comparison between two specific guns, rather than classes of guns...

realized that so edited my post.

Personally, I think winghooting with a flintlock will be itself more difficult than shooting with a particular style.

ahh you make a very good point I hand't thought of that. have to have a pretty good follow through.

Generaly trade guns are easy to handle. North west guns can be hc with shorter barrels. Barrels with 31 inch barrels were sold out west. To be correct a FDC will have a 44 inch barrel, most copies are made with 42 inch barrels. True 'Foweling pieces' went of style at the end of the American colonal period. By then double barrel shot guns were comming more in more in style. Sometimes fowlers were made with shorter barrels, but most were 42/44 even 46 inch barrels. People hunt the flying with long barrels,I'm not good at it. Some people find french guns too short in the pull,or with too much of a drop, or NWG to strieght. I find both very comfortable to shoot, and can roll a bunny or a deer with both. I find the FDC a little lighter to handle then my NWG, as the longer barrel balances easier.

Thanks tenngun that was very helpful. Still not sure exactly what I am going to end up with.

Both are great, and do exactly the same thing. However in terms of fit and form, I've found a true FOWLR is more comfortable to shoulder and shoot. Most trade guns tend to have a military styled butt, along with a wider/ thicker wrist area that for some with small hands (like me) can be a little unnatural to shoulder and hold. Yet, despite those items the trade musket is one of my personal favorites due to the popularity and use with many Native tribes.

colorado clyde said:

A trade gun is by definition, a gun of lesser value traded for something of higher value.
They were traded for centuries and all across the Globe wherever there was valuable trade.
The models of trade guns depended on who was trading them, when and where.

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Both sides of the trade thought they were getting a deal. In america silly dog faced white eyes would trade these magical fusils decked out in shinny brass and with a magical snake already on the gun, for easily obtained fur, that often had been thown away after a beaver dinner, while silly savages would trade $20 in fur for a $10 fusil with a nailed on butt plate, little inletting thin barrel and dumb looking side plate. Fair trade is when both side think they put one over on the other guy.

Bingo!... :haha:

folks are also looking for very American historic guns, and while there were certainly fowlers in the colonies, the concept is definitely headed toward the British game gun, which are fine wing shooting guns, but on the wrong side of the War of Independence.

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I wonder about that. Take a journey through Grinslade's "Flintlock Fowlers: The first guns made in America" and you may well get a different impression.