Can’t shoot a descent group?

Stumpkiller said:

I'm better in my own mind than I am on paper as well.

And the older I get the better I was. ;-)

First you have to tell us what you consider "good groups". Minute of angle (1" at 100 yards) are outstanding groups; but unless you have a telescopic sight and are firing from a bench most mortals won't be there.

2" at 50 yards with an iron sighted rifle is about all I can hope for; and on the days I can't blink away the blurries or get my neck adjusted so I can see the sights and target with my Varilux lenses and my front sight remains fuzzy I may be 6". I used to be able to pop off 4 out of 5 empty shotshells lined up on a board with a pump .22 LR at 50 yards. Those days are gone.

I do wonder, though, who sights in the rifles for these guys who can't shoot targets but are grim death on game. I can believe that someone who can do 5" at 50 yards consistently and in all conditions won't starve; and that's still in the vitals at 100 yards on large game. But to think they can magically pop off a deer at 150 yards whenever required just doesn't hold water.

I used to hunt with a guy who had an awful flinch. We had to hunt with slug shotguns and he was beat up by the third shot at targets and all over the paper.

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I used to demand a 4" grouo to keep the gun (100yds). Now I shoot 90 (cuz where I shoot a tree fell and stole 10 yds from me). I may have to reconsider? I may have to admit my years have caught up :shocked2: to me? I may have to start grouping guns at 75 yds. I just wanna be sure the gun is a "shooter". I have had a few Cabelas hawkins ordered same time and serial #'s REAL close that would have one be a shooter and the other barely a keeper after struggling with loads. I nearly always shoot alone so I just compete agianst my (older) self and have been losing alot lately :shake: .

colorado clyde said:

he would go out the week before season opened and fire one shot to verify his gun was on....then he would go hunting and fire one shot, kill a deer and was done for the year.

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Yeah, and it's stories like that,, that makes a lot of other folks think they can do the same.
Your Father probably put more time into the "hunt" then anything else and got himself into position.

That "I only need one shot a year to sight in" thing has probably caused more gut shot, wounded and lost deer then all the hangovers in deer camp for a 100 years.

I hunt big game every year and compete regularly on paper and silhouette matches.
Practice on targets makes me better on anything else I shoot at because it reinforces the fundamentals regularly and maintains muscle tone.
Silhouette shooting is revealing as well because a wounding shot that would score zero on paper will knock over a steel target for a point and a slap on the back. In reality it is poor shooting.
I had a shot at a caribou bull this year at what I thought was about three hundred yards across a river. In reality it was closer to 400 and the first shot was low and a bit left from a good break for a miss.
I corrected for a breeze coming in from up river and held at bit higher over his back.
The second shot cut his jugular and was a killing shot but did not knock him down.
I held the same over his back and gave a bit more for the wind,the third went through his heart and dropped him.
Had I not been in practice from lots of target shooting, some to 600 yards from midrange courses, I would never have been able to make the kill.
Three hundred yards is about the limit at which I can make a good kill radius shot with my hunting rifle on big game without wounding and as I age it will get less.
If one cannot get a gun to shoot on paper how in the world can they ever have any confidence in the potential accuracy of the gun and load?
I understand the concept of point shooting but this practice is generally seriously inaccurate at extended game ranges.

If I had a dollar for every Rambo with a 30-30 that thought being able to hit a paper plate was "good enough", I'd be a millionaire..... :haha:

And the guys that can't hit the paper plate, usually have the banana clip mentality.... :youcrazy:

necchi said:

colorado clyde said:

he would go out the week before season opened and fire one shot to verify his gun was on....then he would go hunting and fire one shot, kill a deer and was done for the year.

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Yeah, and it's stories like that,, that makes a lot of other folks think they can do the same.

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I have recently, a number of times, watched in dismay as some hunting show host pulls out his new out of the box unmentionable muzzleloader, slaps on the pre-set scope, fires three predetermined loads and calls it good to go on the hunt. NOW...are they really that stupid themselves and actually go hunting or are they doing this as an advertisement just to make others think muzzleloading, even with unmentionables, is that easy. Either way, the footage should be left on the cutting room floor...but then most of those shows don't have a cutting room...obviously. :shake:

are they really that stupid

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YES!.....And they are playing to their target demographic.... :haha:

Don Steele said:

How do you define being a "Good Shot" ??

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I don’t know a good way to answer that but I will try.
2015 I only shot from a bench, rested and at paper my group looked more like a shotgun pattern
2014 did not shoot at all
2013 shooting at targets the size of a golf ball at 50 yds with a handgun, offhand, I would expect to hit it more times than not.

22fowl

“Have you had your eyes tested recently..?”

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Yes, trifocal

“I"m pushing 60 and went with tang mounted peep sights. Major improvement.”

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Peep sights would good for bench rest I bet.

“Don't shoot competition just hunting.”

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Have not done much shooting lately of any kind

“Is there a flinch involved?”

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I am sure that there is, good point, may be more so from the bench.

“Hows your health?”

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If I had known I was going to live this long”¦. I would ducked more in my miss spent youth.
Lots of phical injures

“Have you rung out the most accurate loads for each rifle.?”

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The truth to that would be no, I have not but were suitable offhand.

“My personal goal keep them touching at 50 yards with 85 yard max for hunting.”

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My ten shot groups were not all on the paper

azmntman
I will try that.


William Alexander

Stumpkiller said:

I'm better in my own mind than I am on paper as well.

And the older I get the better I was. ;-)

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You got me pegged, nice to know I am not alone.



William Alexander

Reduce your distance and have someone else shoot for comparison. this will tell you if it is the gun or you.....then proceed.

Just a point, I have always been an instinct shot, can’t do that well from a bench maybe?




William Alexander

Maybe time you switch to shotgun..... :haha:

colorado clyde said:

Maybe time you switch to shotgun..... :haha:

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:rotf: :rotf:
If you looked at my groups you swear that’s what I must be shooting :idunno:



:redface:
William Alexander

Sure there is hope, go back to the fundamentals and practice them.
Remember,really good shots are made not born. Now they often are born with the capacity to learn and employ the fundamentals easily but sustained repeatable accuracy must necessarily include the mechanics that make it possible.
Most women can be made into good shots and the reason is because they will usually listen to what they are told about the fundamentals and then proceed to use them.
Also most of them seem to have good eye to hand coordination.

M.D. said:

Most women can be made into good shots and the reason is because they will usually listen to what they are told about the fundamentals and then proceed to use them.
Also most of them seem to have good eye to hand coordination.

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Also, there is no Macho BS with them that they are somehow supposed to be a good or great shot with little or no practice. (I am NOT referring to anyone who posted in this thread, but rather from what I have seen when instructing men and women in shooting over the years.) Women are also better at repetitive tasks than men, so they often don't take as long to absorb and then later better concentrate on fundamentals.

Gus

I've never missed with rifle ball or shot since I was a kid. I do, however, shoot at a lot of alternate targets. :grin:

If anyone is interested in seeing a closer view of the caribou antlers then click on the picture and click on the spy glass feature.
It will blow the picture up and put it into better depth perception.
Here is another shot of them.
A fairly nice bull but I've seen some that were quite a bit larger at "Fast Eddy's" (restaurant in Tok AK) where all the local hunters congregate to eat and show off their bulls !

This reminds me of a story I once read about a guy that killed every game animal he shot at in the field and then one day years later he went to the range and shot for groups with his friends with the same rifle. His groups were about 4" at 100 yards and he was really upset about it.

The point is that a 4" group will harvest game very well but I myself would not accept that as I know most any firearm can be made to do much better. 100 yards with open sights is a long way but from the bench I expect 2". I sight in for 80 yards with a ball rifle which puts me down a couple of inches at 100 and about 1" high at 50.

I am a paste the bead shooter now instead of a 6 o'clock holder like I used to. I find it is much quicker in the deer woods than a 6 o'clock hold and the big fiber optic bead on the shoulder or vitals at 100 drops them right in there. I use a full sized paper plate centering the bead on the plate when I sight in. I like to refer to it as point; click and ship.

I have known several guys that could shoot sub 1" groups that completely fell apart at the seems when shooting game.
I shoot groups to see what the load and gun are capable of. After that I shoot off cross sticks and in brush and trees. I like to shoot up hills and down. Across canyons and gully's.
A lot of times I will go out and only shoot once or twice. I want to know where that bullet is going to hit, and not off of a sand bag.

hanshi said:

I've never missed with rifle ball or shot since I was a kid. I do, however, shoot at a lot of alternate targets. :grin:

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That did not sink in right away :haha:





William Alexander

I used to work with a bunch of yahoos that thought they were great hunters. I don't know if they went to the range or not, but their strategy was to find a bunch of elk in the timber, and then using their semi-auto rifles, blaze away to cripple as many as they could by shooting them in their legs. Instead of hunting, this was how to get elk. I called them "The leg shooters hunt club", motto "We aim to maim". I wasn't very popular with them, and one was my boss.