Armi Sport Kentucky .45 cal

Hey all,

I am new to the forum and new to muzzle loading. I have an opportunity to pick up a .45 cal Kentucky rifle made by Armi Sport. I am interested in using it for deer hunting; and am concerned as I came across an manual that states the charge for a 131 grn ball should be between 40 and 50 grains of ffg. This seems really slow to me?

Any insight will be appreciated.

- Sean O.

Start with 45 grains, (the caliber of the gun), and work up 5 grains at a time until you find your most accurate load. You will be working with velocities of around 1400 to 1600fps, and it doesn't take much black powder to get there. 50 t0 60 grains of powder will shoot a round ball completely through a deer. The only disadvantage to hunting with a muzzleloader is the limit on range, usually 100 yards or less. 99% of the deep I have killed, by any means, were at less than 100 yards, many at less than 50 yards. Keep yer powder dry......robin :hmm:

So what about pressure? I hand load for center fire and I am wondering about increased pressure / the possibility for a kaboom if I go over the listed maximum charge.

Is there a SAAMI pressure guideline for muzzle-loaders by caliber? Is there a pressure chart available anywhere for load / ball weight?

Is there anything I am just simply missing when it comes to load make-up?

Also, from what I have read this rifle has a twist rate of 1 to 36; is this fast enough for a minie ball? if so how does projectile weight enter into the equation?

Don't worry about pressure if you keep to FFg. Though you are on the borderline to use faster/higher-peak-pressure-producing FFFg I would limit that to patched round ball. You are well situated to use a heavier conical and I'd probably only use FFg then. Someones will be here to review that twist with you in more detail in a little while and take guesses about powder grain and pressure...

my kentucky .45 likes 70grs. with a mink oil patched round ball,seems to drop a bit less with 70grs than 60grs. only difference mine has a 1-66 twist. it also will shoot the lights out with bullets we don't discuss here on this forum. hits in the chest area with the .45 prb will pass right on through and keep going if you don't hit both shoulders, even then it might. if i use the 3f i have to use a wad between powder and patch or it burns through on my patch and the ball gets a little crazy.

If your shooting a patched roundball the pressures from 2Fg or 3Fg powder won't be that high in your .45 until you start loading over 90 grains.

For instance, the Lyman Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual says using the faster burning 3Fg Goex black powder under a .440 diameter patched ball:

50 gr = 9900 psi
60 gr = 11300 psi
70 gr = 13300 psi
80 gr = 15300 psi
90 gr = 16200 psi

Shooting elongated bullets is another thing and I don't recommend using 3Fg powder with them.

The heavier weight of the slug raises the pressures quite a bit.

For instance, the Lyman book says a .45 cal 285 grain slug over a GOEX 2Fg powder load will produce:

50 gr = 12700 psi
60 gr = 16900 psi
70 gr = 19100 psi
80 gr = 21300 psi
90 gr = 22900 psi

In my opinion this is a round ball rifle. These rifles are a 20th Century German (manufactured by Italians) design that has many modern features, namely the way it takes down.

The Kentuckian barrel is 35-7/8(36inches) in length I recollect. The twist 1 and 36. This follows a old formula that many claim as the traditional twist for best accuracy, being one turn per length of barrel. I'm not so sure I agree with that, I'm just telling you why the designers chose that twist...one twist per length of barrel.

Personally I think 70 grains with a round ball should be fine through this rifle. As Zonie said I would be real conservative with conical loads through this rifle.

Here's why.....
These Kentuckian barrels are pretty thin for the bore size. While modern rifles are overbuilt with safety in mind. The barrel is still pretty thin, thus only the barrel wall threads hold the drum. This was a problem with the original drum percussions. With a round ball you'll be fine IMHO. Trying to push it with a conical...It may not fail but you could blow the drum off as it is the weak link, especially if you exceed factory recommended loads.

I picked up the rifle and am suspect it has never been fired. However, it appears it was somewhat of a wall hanger due to the tiny patches of white paint along the stoke. So I have some questions. There is somewhat of a dentist in the metal behind the nipple, there is discoloration on the lock plate, and when I ran patches through it appears I have rust.

I apologize for the screwed up post. My autocorrect stinks. Sometimes I do not know what I am doing.

It is hard to know what the dent behind the nipple is from, but could be from someone dropping the hammer without the barrel or maybe the nipple installed on the gun.

The rust on the patches may be minor surface rust from just sitting for many years without being cleaned or checked. Did the cleaning rod catch as you cleaned the barrel or was it mostly smooth? If it was smooth, then I don't think you have any real issue with a bad bore on the gun.

The mottled lock is due to a case hardening finish on the lock as opposed to regular blueing.

Those patches look okay. A tiny bit of rust won't hurt a thing, as long as the barrel is not pitted. Even some pitted barrels, still shot okay.

The tendencies is to want to put a lot of powder into a black powder rifle. I was the same way at first. Why beat yourself and the gun up, using heavy charges. The Trapdoor rifles in 45-70, using a heavy bullet, only used 70 grains. If I wanted a big heavy loaded rifle, I'd get a 11 lb. Hawken. Like "DOG" said 50-60 grs. is all you need.

Load it down and enjoy life.

Agree on the loads. I shoot 50 grains in my 50 when target shooting and between 70-80 for deer hunting.

Quote: There is somewhat of a dentist in the metal behind the nipple

As a retired dentist I resemble that remark :haha:

My .45 loves 50 grains of FFg BP, I bet your will be close to that too

Someone somewhere came up with a weird load formula for PRB.

I don't know whether it was from this forum I saw this or somewhere else, but for a .45 they figured about 1.5 times the caliber and move the decimal for a hunting load in grains.

So about 67.5 grains of FFG for this load.

It sounds reasonable, but as was stated earlier, start with the caliber and move up by 5g increments.

For PRB between 50 and 60 of ffg in my .45 older Kentucky style rifle, I really don't want to run anything over 65 grains in it unless I am going to use a 200 grain LEE REAL stubby conical.

I just got one of these rifles, I hope it shoots ok for 50m target shooting. I have only .440 RB mold for it at this stage. I would like the 245gn Maxi Ball mold also.

The Rifle I have is a Kentuckian....I also think the twist is more like 1-30 inch. It's looks to be unfired, but it's not. I only have 440 RB mold and 3F powder to try. I think the twist will like a minie maybe??

yellowsevenpot said:

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What's the trigger pull like? Mine is really heavy....love the gun though!