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Jaeger length?

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I would give a great deal of credence to Stophel here as always where Germanic rifles are discussed and I suggest a serious look at "JAEGER RIFLES" a collection of articles in "Muzzle Blasts" by George Shumway.

Tom Patton
 
If you feel that you can't, or don't want to do the work yourself, contact one or more gun makers, barrel makers, and tell them what you want.

Just because Track, or other shops don't have such items on their shelves, doesn't mean they can't be had.

And doing the swamping yourself, with a draw file, is not out of the realm of possibility ( especially with a short barrel). It takes time and patience, and a little researching the profile. But, if you can file, you can do it.

Well worth it, whichever path you take. :thumbsup:
 
myshootinstinks said:
I've never seen a swamped barrel as short as 25-28". I may be way off here but the ones I've seen for sale on Track or ML builders supply are much longer. Are you suggesting that I buy a straight barrel and "swamp" it myself by draw filing?

Personally, I'd go with Track's 31" in .58 if I was doing one. You might also try contacting L.C. Rice and begging for a shorter swamped barrel. But the wait would be long.

Link below is to an original 25" swamped barrel Jäger
http://www.ambroseantiques.com/flongarms/macz.htm
 
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Apparently short barrels were very much the norm.
This is supposed to be an original c1740 Jaeger that was sold at an auction, 68 caliber with a barrel just over 21". Looks to me like this one has a straight barrel.
 
Here's an original, about a 24-25"er. I'm not sure I care for that style of trigger & guard. Many Jaeger repros use it.
 
myshootinstinks said:
Apparently short barrels were very much the norm.
This is supposed to be an original c1740 Jaeger that was sold at an auction, 68 caliber with a barrel just over 21". Looks to me like this one has a straight barrel.

This is the "J. Vrooman" rifle. It was supposed to have belonged to a Hollander in New York. The gun itself looks like a typical South German rifle, like from along the Main River or somewhere south of there.

It is a pretty short rifle. I have a German rifle from the 1830's that has a 16" barrel. The barrel WILL be tapered and flared, and not straight, though the taper and flare may be hard to perceive in the photos.
 
Gentlemen, this is a typical discussion about the inaccuracy of the english language when you translate from German.
May we want to use the correct terms?
The shorter guns (rifled or not) are generally called "Stutzen". Stutzen is also the verb for "shortening or bringin into form (for beards for example)".
Generally the Stutzen which I would say has less than 26" in barrel length is predominant in Bavaria, Swabia,Badenia and Southern Hessia and of course Austria.
The longer rifles where called "Buechsen" and a lot of time combined into one noun with their intention, like "Jagdbuechse"=hunting rifle or "Scheibenbuechse"=target rifle. Barrels 27-34" may be common for the "jagdbuechse" and 30+ probably most common for the Scheibenbuechse.
Calibers were supposed to be .58 to .72 with .60 to .66 most dominantly used.
Please check: http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_en/aktuelle-auktion.html
http://www.fricker-historische-waffen.de/verkaufsobjekte/feuerwaffen/

The wooden triggerguard is a clear style element of southern german guns (Bavaria,Swabia,Badenia). All fowling guns have the jaeger styling,but are 95%+ half stock guns. The Stutzen in most common for mounted "hunters" and again for the mountaineous/hilly regions of southern Germany and of course Switzerland where swiss german is spoken.

Even today the Bergstutzen (mountain stutzen) is still a commom modern full stocked combination rifle (small caliber and larger one) carried by hunters in the mountains: http://www.frankonia.de/B4+Bergstu...t.html?Artikelnummer=140966&query=bergstutzen

Length is:38.25" overall
 
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Vielen dank!! (Many thanks!!) Some of the very little I remember from studying German in the late 1960's.

I really enjoyed reading your informative post.

I remember reading in one of the Journal of Historical Armsmaking Technology Volumes that 17th and 18th century German was so different from Modern German that translation was even more difficult, first into Modern German and then into English. Is that also true and perhaps why there are some misunderstandings about Jaegers Rifles?

Also, do you know if part or all of the reason for the wooden triggerguards on Southern German rifles was due to the high cost of brass in that period?

Gus
 
Pete G said:
myshootinstinks said:
Are you suggesting that I buy a straight barrel and "swamp" it myself by draw filing?


Everyone should try that once, but I've never heard of ANYONE trying it twice.

Yea, I'm not really crazy about the idea of "swamping" a barrel with a file. I'm somewhat doubtful that there is a practical benefit with such a short barrel, especially 21-25". :hmm:
 
The wooden triggerguards (which are found from all over, though most do seem to be from Austria, Bohemia, and Bavaria) were in imitation of fashionable Italian guns, which would often even have the triggerguard carved directly out of the stock in one piece.
 
That is true to an extent. In these time there was no formal "standardized" spelling. In nowadays Germany there are probably 16+ dialects, where some have complete different words for the same thing.
I am from southern Germany, a born Swabian, but it is almost impossible for us to understand any dialects from middle and northern Germany and vice versa.
If you are not a native German and know about those dialects, translating things is often very difficult and prone to simplification and errors.
In the times preceeding the internet and widespread availablity of good pictures it was even harder to do comparisons. That's why I like to refer to the hermann historica catalogues a lot. A good bunch of data and very good pictures even with an english description. And even in these description, things in english are simplified compared to the native german description.
 
Here's my TOTW kit. I like the result but if I could do it over I would've used walnut instead of maple. Just thought I would steal this opportunity to post a pic of it. It has the 31" Colerain .62 barrel.
 
So Pedersoli gets it and got it pretty right for their .54 modern mass-marketed 27-5/8" 1:24 (I see) Hunter and 33-5/16" 1:65 Target.

Not too surprised...
 
Stophel said:
The wooden triggerguards (which are found from all over, though most do seem to be from Austria, Bohemia, and Bavaria) were in imitation of fashionable Italian guns, which would often even have the triggerguard carved directly out of the stock in one piece.

Thank you.
Gus
 
Wow, I did not realize the modern German language varied so much in different areas of Germany. Back in the 17th/18th centuries, I imagine the problem even larger then. Thanks for the information.

Gus
 
A few years ago I made a fixture for swamping bbls
that worked very well. I wrote it up and Muzzle
Loader magazine printed it...The older barrels
were easy but the steel one convinced me to buy what
I wanted...They took forever to file. I did a couple
rifle and several pistols barrels...
Wulf
 
ML barrels are pretty soft steel. I'd be interested in the details of your jig if you can post or PM me. Thanks
 
Years ago when I built my first one, I was asking the same thing. I was told it had to be 28 to 31" long & all real Jaegers were .58 ca. :shocked2: :idunno: :rotf: :rotf: Boy was I misslead.

After some detailed research, I found barrel lengths as short as 20" and as long as 51". Calipers from .31 to .72 cal.

That being said, the most common caliber I found did turn out to be .58 and Allot of the barrel lengths in th 20's.... But never found Anything stating a Jaeger was a Specific cal or barrel length.

I find people say the same thing about PA rifles. Has to be 44" or 42" or 46" to be a Real PA rifle. Most people read one lil article about a rifle & now they are an expert.

Keith Lisle

Ps: a good example of misinformation is the Pedersoli Jaeger article in Muzzleblasts. The guy must have done at least 12 minutes of research before writing the article. :slap:
 
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