Jaeger length?

What is the correct barrel length for a Jaeger? I owned a pretty one that had, if I recall correctly, a 34" barrel. Recently saw another w/ a 29"er. What length were the original rifles? A short,(28-30"), 54 cal Jaeger would make a slick hunting rig.

I believe if you look at (original) Jaeger's you will find there is NO standard dimensions.

I have seen them as short as 16 inches and as long as about 32 inches.

They are often faster twisted then what we think of with black powder guns - 1:28 would not be "unusual", neither would straight rifling (no twist at all).

I have read other accounts where the twist on some is based on the barrel length - so a 30" barrel would have a 1:30 twist.

Not being a production gun and being made by countless builders means there is "no right answer".

If you are trying to emulate a specific builder from a specific time period then that individual may have a "recipe", but to try and lump everyone who ever built one into a single formula is just not possible.

Anytime I build a rifle I do it one of two ways - 1) pick a specific rifle and use the dimensions of that one or 2) build one in the style of three or more rifles from "the same builder" to capture their design - that may mean that I go with a 42" barrel even if of all the rifles studied had barrel lengths of 40-44" with "none" of them being exactly 42".

Personally though I do prefer the (balanced) look of a Jaeger that has a barrel of about 28" - to me it just "looks right".

Jäger rifles (late 18th century)[edit]

By the late 18th century, these rifles had evolved to being shorter than earlier hunting weapons and were generally shorter than the typical military musket, with no provision for a bayonet. The shorter weapon was easier to load and more practical in skirmish combat. However, there was some loss of accuracy and the shorter barrel used meant the powder charges less efficiently.

Jäger rifles typically had a length around 45 inches (1,100 mm), with a 30-inch (760 mm) barrel, and weighed around 9 lb (4.1 kg). Frequently there was a scrolled brass trigger guard to provide a better grip and a raised cheek-rest for support when aiming. Most rifles had a butt-trap or patch box about six inches long for storing greased linen patches and tools. The patch box lids were generally brass and were hinged at the rear. Most of these rifles were the personal property of the soldier and could vary substantially in design and decoration.

The Jäger rifle concept was adopted by other nations including Britain which imported German Jäger rifles for use by skirmishers and marksmen. Many of these were Hanoverian and when Britain standardized with its Pattern 1776 rifle, it was essentially a copy of a Jäger style from Hanover. Hessian mercenary troops who fought for the British in the US Revolution included Jäger rifle units.

That all makes sense guys. If you google, "Jaeger flintlock pics", you'll bring up all kinds of variations. Some really short, some w/ patch boxes, brass, iron, or siding wood, a few w/o patch boxes. Also some have a slight crook in the grip, some are straight. Most are walnut but some are maple. Some w/ swamped barrels, some straight octagon. I'm not particularly wanting to duplicate any particular rifle but I'd like to stay within the theme of one of the shorter Jaegers because I think it will make a good deer/elk gun.
It would appear that there is a lot of wiggle room. In other words, and correct me if I'm off on this, A short, large caliber barrel + a Germanic style lock + A fairly large stock in a general Jaeger style w/ large, broad butt-plate, = Jaeger?

Intending to shoot RBs out of a 28-29" barrel, I was thinking of about a 56" twist?

The first Germanic rifles were wheelocks and set on a 'colts foot' stock and made to shoot held in front like a pistol or balanced on the upper arm. Barrels had to be short to be able to steady. I would tend to think rifles grew up to longer barrels instead of growing down from muskets. :idunno: I often thought that the long American rifle was a result of style more then any other cause. German gunmakers were building for British and Dutch buyers who had been used to 'full length guns'.
The modern style shoulder or upper arm fired gunstock did fist evolve to fit long guns, so the first jäger rifle makers could have made full sized guns and cut down for convinince.

I agree about the variation.

Here's my Pedersoli deluxe Jaeger "hunter" flintlock: 28+" with a 1:28 twist. As I mentioned elsewhere they also make a "target" version in 33" with 1:65 twist with different sights.



Definitely a hefty but balanced gun in feel and to the eye. And unlike for the Baker rifle quality military (and especially civillian) slings are available here.

Others have summed it up pretty well. They varied. I have an excellent article from a 1971 American Rifleman magazine I can e-mail to you. Just pt me.

myshootinstinks said:

What is the correct barrel length for a Jaeger?

Click to expand...

I'm no expert on Jaegers by any means but I can say that a few Germanic rifles (made and used in the Germanic States) can be found at about any length.
Some dating to the early 18th Century...1720s I believe, have been found with barrels of over 40 inches in length.

I have one just like it. It is my very favorite gun

If I recall correctly, Jaegers also had a dog-knot swell on the forearm.

Twisted_1in66:thumbsup:
Dan

Hunt up some originals.

A Jaeger that was built c.1740 and linked to the American Revolution just sold off icollector that had a 21-1/4" barrel.
http://www.icollector.com/Importan...0-36-overall-with-a-21-1-4-barrel-of_i8788183

Here's another from c.1750 with a 25" barrel
http://www.icollector.com/Early-an...ed-M-Gerlach-on-lock-and-A-Franckfu_i10487933

A second c. 1750 with 25" barrel
http://www.ambroseantiques.com/flongarms.htm

Another c.1750 (0.60 cal) with a 28" barrel.
http://www.riverjunction.com/Original-German-Jaeger-Flint-Lock-60-cal_p_3300.html


So from that census it seems 25" is about average (watch out for statistics). :wink:

I don't own a Jaeger, but have come close to pulling the trigger and buying several times. In the process I've handled quite a few modern builds and shot a few, plus handled a couple of originals.

While I agree that barrel length can vary a lot, one constant holds true for me at least. Barrel profile is really important for handling.

A straight barrel of any length can make a Jaeger feel "clubby" to me with the weight of extra wood and barrel steel in all the wrong places. You have a lot more "freedom" in stock build with a good swamped barrel, and to a lesser degree a tapered barrel. It makes an amazing difference even when the stock style gets a little beefy.

When and if I have a Jaeger built it's likely to come through with a barrel in the 28-30" range, and most certainly swamped. I'm leaning toward 69 caliber, but mostly because I can't decide between 62 and 72.

Alden is dead-on re the slings. :thumbsup: These were hunting rifles, picked up by certain military units for their handiness.

I don't see any necessary loss of accuracy with the shorter barrel, though individual results might vary.

Peruse a lot of photos of originals,
pick a barrel length you like, and go for it.

And, as BrownBear points out, a "swamped" barrel is the way to go. They make the difference between a stubby carbine and an elegant short rifle.

LOL My early Baker Rifle is .69!

twisted_1in66 said:

If I recall correctly, Jaegers also had a dog-knot swell on the forearm.

Twisted_1in66:thumbsup:
Dan

Click to expand...

No, not really. This is one of the wierd modern things that people try to put on "Jaeger" rifles. The swells are on Dutch guns and Brown Bess muskets, but not usually much else. Many German rifles DO have raised carving, even bulged raised carving in this area, as the transition between the fore end moulding and the carving around the lower rod pipe. But this does NOT resemble the dog knots.

Now, to belch out my opinion.... :grin: I see SO many "Jaeger" rifles built today by people who apparently have never really studied, much less handled any 18th century German rifles, as it is only the RAREST instances when I see where someone has built a rifle that actually looks and feels anything like a real 18th century German gun. The resources are out there, but yes, you do have to look, search, and scrounge for them. But many just seem to want to keep copying and recopying someone else's modern renditions. Stepping off the soapbox now. :wink:

Back to barrel length, a good average is 24- 28". Often shorter, sometimes longer. Hunting rifles with 30+ inch long barrels are uncommon, for sure, but some do exist. Usually if you see a long rifle barrel, it is on a heavy bench rest target rifle. Hunting and offhand target rifles are generally of this 24-28" range. Really short rifles are called "Stuetzen" (no, I don't know what that actually means) and generally are regarded as being used for hunting in heavy cover, usually wild boar. There are SOME longer barreled (like 38+") small caliber rifles that were used for shooting birds and small game, but they seem to be rather rare.

Oh, and I have seen VERY VERY VERY FEW 18th century known or attributed Swiss rifles. In fact, only TWO. Both happen to have longer (like 41 or 43") barrels. Two guns does not a trend make, but I do wonder if this would hold true over a larger sampling...

I've never seen a swamped barrel as short as 25-28". I may be way off here but the ones I've seen for sale on Track or ML builders supply are much longer. Are you suggesting that I buy a straight barrel and "swamp" it myself by draw filing?

Dunno about your abilities, but that's what the smith I've worked with was proposing to do.

I tried swamping a straight barrel once. VERY quickly I decided to pursue other avenues!

A custom barrel maker like Charles Burton or someone would be your best bet.

http://www.braunschweiger-jaeger.de/index.html
http://www.jaegerkorps.org/home.html
there are more pics of the arms than dimensions, but I think it's worth a look and read.

http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20allemande/a%20a%20image%20arme%20allemande%20gb.htm
Down the page there are gun makers by name you can search.