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CVA Hawken Loading Issues

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MSK

Smollett
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Twice thus far I've taken out a .50 CVA Hawken rifle and am having some perplexing issues in loading. It seems rather difficult to get a ball down the barrel even with the first shot, using a recommended patch/ball combo. The bore isn't pitted or otherwise damaged. I'm using the following: .490 round ball with a .015 patch and Dixie's Old Zip patch lube. I'm using as synthetic Delrin rod to load. After the 2nd shot, it is a real chore to get the ball seated, sucking the fun right out of the process. I am wondering if it might make sense to go to a .480 ball using the same patching. Since this is a rather common gun, has anyone else had this issue and perhaps any other advice to share?

Many thanks.
 
If the bore is smooth and free of pitting you might try a .010 patch before moving down to such an undersized ball. Five thousandths of an inch can make a real big difference sometimes.
 
The ball and patch combination sound right. It is what I would use for that rifle. It is possible that you are not using enough lube on your patches even though many folks, including Dutch Schoultz, like the "dry patch" method of lubrication. You could try going to a .010 patch but you may find that a patch that thin may have "burn through" problems. If the thinner patch works but you find that you are having burn through problems, you can either use an OP wad or you can use 10 or 15 grain volume of something like corn meal, grits or Cream of Wheat on top of your powder. I know that may sound strange to you but it is a tried and true method and will do absolutly no harm to your rifle. Either the wad or the corn meal will serve to protect your patch from the hot gasses. I make my OP wads from Duro Felt. http://www.durofelt.com/image_26.html It is 100% wool felt. Do not use craft felt from a hobby store because it is made with synthetics that will melt in your bore and make a mess. I punch the wads out with a hollow punch after I lube the felt sheet. To lube the sheet, just spread the lube of choice (Bore Butter or Crisco work fine) on the sheet of felt like buttering toast. Put the felt in your microwave for a few seconds to melt the lube into the felt and then punch your wads.

Dutch recomends wiping your bore between every shot. It keeps the fouling from building up. Just a damp patch run down the bore in one smooth stroke and out with one smooth stroke will keep your bore nice and clean.
 
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I think your problem lies with the "Old Zip" patch lube. It does not work as good as Dixie says and makes loading difficult after the first shot if you don't wipe really good between shots :( . There are better patch lubes out there -- try Mr Flintlock lube, Hoppies #9 Blackpowder lube, Windshield Washer Fluid, Spit -- etc, etc :v .
 
I would recommend getting a good 3/8 inch, one piece, steel range rod with a muzzle guard to load. It will make a big difference.
 
Swabbing between shots may help. I reccomend doing that. The thinner patch reccomended won't hurt. Do try changing lube. Lots of options. The heavy steel rod might help but you really should not have to resort to force to load.
 
What's the powder?
What condition is the bore in before your first shot?
Do you use "oil" for storage? Or some other kind of "seasoning" stuff in the bore?
What kind of "patch"?
So you use Old Zip,, How much? A lot? Kinda dry?

See, you've left out a lot of info,, No, it's not typical,, what are you doing?
 
if it was was me i would lap the bore,use cleaning rod with wire brush.wrap fine steel wool around brush.run it all the way in and out several dozen times.have you shot conicals do they go in hard too ?
 
So, the first shot is difficult to load even in a clean barrel. The bore is smooth. Your ball and patch size is reasonable. That leaves us with the real condition of the bore or the effectiveness of the lube.

Starting with the bore, make sure that all the grease and burnt lubrication is removed. That can be hard to see. The fouling and burnt remnants of the lube can be hard to see a d even more difficult to remove. This will take some effort and cleaning materials to remove fouling residue. Your first ball should load easily. While drin rods are okat, I think that the brass working rod is a better choice.

Try one of the suggested alternative lubes. Wipe with a damp patch between shots and see if shooting improves.
 
I have 2 older .50 caliber CVA Hawken rifles... and it sounds to me like your rifle may have a "tight" bore. However, here are my 4 suggestions to "cure" your problem.

I'd do 4 things:
1) I'd use a thinner patch... maybe a .010 to .012 inch cotton or cotton denim patch thickness and lube it with plenty of lube as recommended by other Members.

2) I'd also use a thin vegetable fiber wad between the powder load and the patched ball. This will eliminate any "burn-through" of the relatively thin patching material. However, check your fired patches and if there is no "burn-though", don't bother using the thin vegetable fiber wads.

3) I'd use a different patch-lube. My black powder shooting buddy uses water-less hand soap and I tried it... it works well and it SEEMS to not only lube the ball/barrel, but tends to clean out the "crud" build-up to a point as well. I've since switched to a semi-solid mixture of bee's wax and liquid Crisco. It works well, too. However, when I run out of the bee's wax, I'm going back to using the water-less hand soap because I really didn't find anything wrong with it and it works well, too.

4) As another member recommended... I'd buy a solid brass range-rod with a "T" handle. It gives one more "pushing power" with very little "bend" when loading. If you "dry ball" and don't have a CO-2 "gun" to clear the "dry" ball, you can use that "T" handle wedged between a fork in a tree or something else you can "wedge" that "T" handle in and then, holding the rifle, "walk" the dry ball out using the screw device. By having that "T" handle, "walking" the ball out of the rifle suddenly becomes very easy. You can also "shoot" the dry ball out by putting a little FFFg or FFFFg black powder in the flash channel by removing the screw from right side of the end of the flash channel, adding a very small amount of powder, then replacing the screw, add a new cap to the nipple and fire it in a SAFE direction.

It's amazing how much velocity is created by only a very small amount of the black powder.


Strength and Honor...

Ron T.
 
it sounds to me like your rifle may have a "tight" bore

That is entirely possible. In the early days of the TC 'hawken' it was found their barrels could vary from one to the other. They were bored and button rifles en masse. Some machines wore faster than other and could give smaller bores and/or shallower rifling. True to the game, ain't nuttin' pezactly, exactly the same gun to gun. Do try the other ideas, particularly changing lubes and patch thickness before investing a new mould for smaller ball.
 
Show us a pic your muzzle crown. If the ball is very hard to start it could need a crown clean up.

One thing at a time!

Start with the lube. Two easy loading lubes are spit and dish soap/water at about 1:5 or 1:7. Use the same to wipe between shots. If either of those don't help, start working on the other suggestions..... One at a time!
 
Back in the '70's I built one from a kit and experienced the same problem. As I was going to gunsmith school at the time I measured the bore at the muzzle and found it was approximately .007"-.008" under the bore size for about 5" in length. Some guys called it "choked" I called it a mistake in manufacturing but they were pretty accurate. I cut my barrel down,re-cut the dovetail for the front sight,relocated the ramrod thimble and proceeded to cut cloverleaves with that rifle. It may be a last resort but keep it in mind.
 
Frogbelly said:
Some guys called it "choked" I called it a mistake in manufacturing but they were pretty accurate. I cut my barrel down,re-cut the dovetail for the front sight,relocated the ramrod thimble and proceeded to cut cloverleaves with that rifle. It may be a last resort but keep it in mind.
Hello Frog. Can you share a photo of that gun!? Sounds neat to me... Especially if a .45.
 
I use a wooden mallet and a ball starter, with that combination. Then I use a 3/8 steel ram rod with a brass muzzle guard. That's for target shooting. If I were using it to hunt, I'd use a thinner patch and sacrifice a little accuracy. I wouldn't want to lean on a hickory ram rod with much force. It can be dangerous if it breaks.
 
:metoo: I 2nd the Range Rod! I had a guy "throw one in" on a deal, but mine is steel with a Muzzle protector and a Wooden handle, it is not a T but Pear shape. It has made loading one of my rifles a lot easier!
The hard loader is about my best shooter tho.
And to think, I just about threw the rod away one day, I was out of BP for a few years due to Health issues!! :doh:
 

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