Cleaning Jag Type?

Um....

When I wrote that, I was not saying it is the method I used to get the broken jag out of the barrel.

I was saying that after having the broken jag experience, this was how I fixed my other jags so I wouldn't have a repeat of the problem (and I haven't).

How did I get the broken jag out of the barrel?

I trickled about 4 or 5 grains of powder into the hole under the nipple, replaced the nipple and shot it out into a stout tree.

colorado clyde said:

I would unbreach a CVA before I would use a welder....if that says anything. :youcrazy:

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Not really... " :youcrazy: "

Then again, people do have differing levels of experience and skill. What I described wouldn't be a big deal for some. For others it's apparently akin to "rocket science."

bpd303 said:

More than likely trying to use a welder would not work due to the patch wrapped around the jag would prevent a ground.

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That is possible, but not certain -- maybe not even "likely."

Zonie said:

Um....

When I wrote that, I was not saying it is the method I used to get the broken jag out of the barrel.

I was saying that after having the broken jag experience, this was how I fixed my other jags so I wouldn't have a repeat of the problem (and I haven't).

How did I get the broken jag out of the barrel?

I trickled about 4 or 5 grains of powder into the hole under the nipple, replaced the nipple and shot it out into a stout tree.

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Where was the stuck jag within the barrel? Did you actually "pipe-bomb" it out?

:stir: good advise on how to arc around inside the barrel hoping to somehow arc to the busted BRASS jag and get a good enuf bite on it to pull it out without worry of arcing the inside of the barrel and fubar'ing it from a guy who had to ask... :stir: http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/289852/

newtewsmoke said:

good advise on how to arc around inside the barrel hoping to somehow arc to the busted BRASS jag and get a good enuf bite on it to pull it out without worry of arcing the inside of the barrel and fubar'ing it from a guy who had to ask... http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/289852/

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Nasty, nasty, nasty...

I would be the first to admit that I know next to nothing about BP firearms...

That doesn't mean that I don't know more than a fair amount about precision metalworking. The two subjects aren't synonymous you know.

You may not have the skill/equipment/tooling to correctly execute what I outlined. You may not have the confidence to attempt a repair in anything but a very "well known" (to you at least) manner. You may be conditioned to dump on any technique that you have never heard of, or could ever think of.

That's not true for everyone though. So before getting nasty next time, please consider that.

But he's right.

And No, Zonie didn't pipe bomb it.

:slap:

If you have to ask the questions you have so far, don't be upset that people get a little irritated when you try to give advice about removing a stuck jag via an arc welder.

I'm not saying it won't work, but it sure doesn't make much sense.

Don't try to reinvent the wheel before you even understand what the current wheel looks like.

An interesting solution to the problem. Theoretically, it should work, but one thing I'm definitely sure of is that there's no way I would consider shoving a welding electrode (insulated or not) down the barrel of my gun and turning on the welder!

Nor would I let anyone else do it, I don't care how good they might claim to be. It would only take one minor mis-calculation and the barrel would be toast.

Sometimes common sense is worth more than all the book learning you can get. You came up with a very poor idea. I hope in the future someone searching for a cure for the same problem doesn't find your post and ruin his rifle. You have been told in a nice way by several people it is a bad idea. This idea may be around on the internet for years. sooner or later somebody with no common sense will try it with a loaded gun and it won't be pretty. I like the jags with some space behind them as several do to get back on track.

Larry

You keep referencing "rocket science."
Let's not forget how many experiments Robert Goddard blew up..not to mention N.A.S.A.

Possible isn't always Practical. :v

Head strong ways, lead to tight corners.

CalGunner said:

I would be the first to admit that I know next to nothing about BP firearms...

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...so why tell us what the best method of extracting a busted jag is?
If you are handy enuf to perform the welder extraction successfully, nothing but admiration from me! :bow: Have you done it before?

newtewsmoke said:

CalGunner said:

I would be the first to admit that I know next to nothing about BP firearms...

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...so why tell us what the best method of extracting a busted jag is?
If you are handy enuf to perform the welder extraction successfully, nothing but admiration from me! Have you done it before?

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#1.) I didn't suggest it was the "best method." Please don' embellish.

#2.) You could take a BP barrel to a good machinist/welder and they could remove a stuck jag without knowing anything at all about BP firearms. This is largely about metalworking, not BP shooting.

#3.) I've used this technique (it's certainly nothing I invented) on a long-stroke hydraulic cylinder and it worked just fine. The issue wouldn't the the exact same as a gun barrel, but they are quite similar.

bpd303 said:

Head strong ways, lead to tight corners.

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Closed minds lead to abject ignorance...

blackpowderscout said:

But he's right.

And No, Zonie didn't pipe bomb it.

If you have to ask the questions you have so far, don't be upset that people get a little irritated when you try to give advice about removing a stuck jag via an arc welder.

I'm not saying it won't work, but it sure doesn't make much sense.

Don't try to reinvent the wheel before you even understand what the current wheel looks like.

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They can take their "irritated" and shove it. Nothing worse that closed-minded people who attack when they should think instead. If they lack the ability and experience to think outside of the box when facing a problem that's on them.

It may not make sense to you. Knowledge of metalworking (and repair) does not equate to BP knowledge. You and others keep trying to commingle the two but you're wrong to do so.

I can remove a stuck jag with a pair of pliers and a long stick so take your metallurgy and go talk to someone who cares.

As blackpowderscout said, no, I didn't pipe bomb it.

Using a light load of powder has been a common and much used method of discharging jags and stuck patched balls and bullets which were loaded without a powder charge for years.

If faced with this situation, it is best to ram the object down to the bottom of the barrel before trickling in the gunpowder to lessen the gap between the object and the powder.

98 percent of the time the small 3-5 grain powder charge won't damage the barrel even if the stuck object is a good distance above the breech and refuses to move down the bore.
(This situation seldom happens though because with a bit of water down the bore, most "stuck" objects can be rammed down the bore without difficulty.)

As for the "welding" method of removing the stuck jag.

Jags are smaller than the bore of the gun or they won't even start in the bore, therefore, they won't get stuck all by themselves.

The stuck ones always have a cleaning patch on them.

Because the brass jag is surrounded by a cloth patch it is not making electrical contact with the bore of the gun.

Arc welders by design operate on very low voltage using the high amperage to produce the heat.

The low voltage will make it difficult if not impossible for enough current to pass thru the cloth jag to energize the brass jag with the needed amperage to produce the arc/heat to "spot weld" the long brass "electrode" to it.

I strongly doubt that even adding water to the patch will reduce its resistance to the electric current.

If we assume somehow the undersize jag got stuck without a patch on it and it was actually making some contact with the bore so the welder would be able to provide the arc to "spot weld" the rod to the jag, IMO there would also be an arc between the jag and the bore.

This arc would damage the bore, leaving a scar that would end up tearing any cloth ball patch when the gun was firing a patched ball load.

Torn ball patches produce very poor accuracy in a muzzleloading rifle. :hmm:

Look I certainly don't know profess to know all the answers, but I've been a Blacksmith all my working life and I find it very difficult to imagine the electrode method being successful. As the gentleman said if there's a patch wrapped around the jag it will prevent earthing, and if it doesn't theres possibly going to be damage to the bore by arcing between the jag and the barrel. Plus I can't see that the fusion between ferrous and non-ferrous metals will be strong enough to hold whilst the jag is drawn out. Unless of course it's only a few inches from the muzzle and not particularly tight. I'd certainly like to watch it being done.

Pardon me for pointing this out to you but you seem to be the one here who is nasty. You ask for advice and then fight with everyone who gives you some or anyone who questions your preconceived notions. There are a lot of good people here who are trying to help you learn but you come across as someone who already knows it all. From reading your posts it appears you are just looking for a fight with everyone. You keep telling others how closed minded they are yet you appear to resist any suggestions that don't agree with your assumptions.

You're gonna do WHAT? With a WHAT??? You're going to make yourself one expensive tomato stake!
Please, don't offer advice such as this to the public. Someone may just be dumb enough to try it! ....even if you only intended this as a joke!

Will