What keeps a conical in?

Conicals stay in place by friction just as patched round balls do. If the conical does not fit tightly enough to fill the grooves when you load it, it is more likely to move up off the powder charge. Just make sure that you use properly sized tight fitting conicals. If you happen to bump your muzzle, drop your rifle or do anything that could jar the conical off its seat, use your ramrod to re-seat it immediately. Properly fitted conicals should not give you any problems.

All the conicals I've used were tight fitting and very difficult to seat with a ramrod and after the rifle has been fired and there is fouling in the bore, seating another conical becomes impossible unless you swab out the bore first. So friction holds it in place.
However, and there is always a however...there are a few "easy loading" designs that aren't pc but for safety reasons I'll mention them- such as CVA power belts. These have a plastic skirt that expands upon the powder exploding and this creates a tight seal. These projectiles were designed for inlines and hunters that sit still in a tree stand. It would probably be possible for that type of conical to move off the charge, creating a double dangerous situation, first that there is a dead air space and second the greater weight of the conical increases internal pressure.
Muzzle loaders work best with PRB's, less pressure, no lead fouling, less expensive.

It's all about friction in relation to the weight of the slug. Less friction on the sides of the bore or heavier slug, and it's more likely to move. Heavy slug that easy to seat and a clean bore adds up to more chance of a move.

Tempest in a teapot for me.

Any combo that makes me suspect a chance of movement, I just seat a tight fitting overshot card intended for shotguns over the top of the conical. Doesn't seem to affect accuracy in the least, and it sure "locks in" a suspect conical. For a 58 cal, I've had the best results with .589 dia or 24 gauge cards. If they're good enough to hold heavy shot loads in place, they're plenty good for conicals. Never seen one move with the overshot card in place.

Col. Batguano said:

How do the smoothbore double barrel shotgun shooters hold their loads in?

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Good question. Mine wouldn't hold between shots. Shooting one barrle move the load forward in the other. I was giddy with joy when I sold my Pedersoli SxS.

I have had them move and I won't use them

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Yeppers, can happen.
I have only tried TC Maxi Balls in a TC rifle. When it moved, that was it for me forever with conicals.
BTW, my remarks do not include CW rifled muskets or Minie balls. Another animule about which I know next to nuttin'.

Like Brown Bear said; I think an over card is the way to go with the conical bullets. Paper patched conical bullets never seemed to move but I still got tired of checking them all the time.

TC makes a PA conical bullet for slow twist barrels that has a sticky lube on them and I experimented with them for a while. I don't think I ever caught one off the charge but they didn't group as well as the ball in my rifles. I never tried the over card on a conical but seems like it should work fine. I always felt that there should be something that could be painted on or applied to the bullet that would keep it securely on the charge but I never came up with anything. Maybe liquid paper would work; never tried it.

One poster mentioned the Power Belt type bullet and I have had those slip off the base and off the charge. A bore obstruction is a very dangerous situation; not to be taken lightly. I like the security of a patched ball. I have tried about anything that can be put down a muzzleloader barrel and it's the patched ball that works for me.

When I first came to this site I was thinking longer range, more power, flatter trajectories and the list goes on. It took me a few years to realize that the patched ball was perfect for what I do and cheaper too. I do still have some fast twist barrels that I shoot 300 grain pistol bullets out of. They stay on the charge and are very accurate but I still like a patched ball much better.

bubba.50 said:

I use lee r.e.a.l. bullets & T/C maxi-balls almost exclusively. they are engraved by the riflin' upon loadin' & have enough friction to hold them in place. in 40yrs shootin' I've never had one move until I pull the trigger on it. luck & have a good'en, bubba.

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Same story here. :v

You could always lube your bullets with JB Weld :slap:
That would hold em!
Fred

In over 50 years I have yet to experience a conical every moving on me. Of course I must say if I EVER felt one go in too easily I would switch to another bullet or go PRB. Of course if your rifle has a very worn bore that could be the reason. :stir:

When developing loads for my Pedersoli Kodiak Safari .72-caliber double rifles, I chose a custom conical bullet as its payload. Since I was loading heavily by the standard of Pedersoli's attorneys, I wanted to do two related things up front: proof each barrel; be certain that the UNFIRED conical would not be jarred into a dangerous position by severe recoil from fired barrel.

Proofing went as expected. To verify conicals would not move once loaded, I loaded both barrels and marked my loading rod for each barrel's actual seating depth (Depths are within hundredths of an inch of each other). I fired 20 rounds from barrel #1 only, using my "dip stick loading rod to check barrel #2's bullet position. After 20 rounds, I shot barrel #2 without issue. Process was reversed. . . . This required two shooting sessions - heavy loads!
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Okay, to the punch lines. Rather than guess about conical bullets' moving, verify it. The bullet I use in all of my Big Bores is intended to be mallet-loaded. In the instance of a double rifle, a repeat shot is not an issue. Shot #3 will be delayed about five minutes.

If your barrel has choke or taper bore, you may be able to load a normally mallet-loaded conical with a firm pop on a short starter. But again, verify.

Hope this helps.

My paper patched bullets have never moved once unless I pull the trigger. Ron

I think your paper patching is the ideal solution.

Probably not going to be shooting any myself, but might put something together for my TC 1/48.

generally, the typical guy who takes up ml to hunt and decides to go conical does not have the perseverance needed to do paper patch right.

There was a muzzleloading bullet posted on a forum months ago that had a patched round ball as the back end and a front riding surface that engraved at loading. I thought it was brilliant design work and would like to try it out.

This hasn't been a problem for me. I just envisioned it happening and was wondering if it were a problem. I asked a similar question about the second barrel of a sxs shotgun. I use conicals with my .58 while shooting on my range and thought I might try it on some elk or deer, but started thinking about that bullet moving down or up the barrel. I will probably go with the patched ball for hunting.

Rifleman1776 said:

Col. Batguano said:

How do the smoothbore double barrel shotgun shooters hold their loads in?

Click to expand...

Good question. Mine wouldn't hold between shots. Shooting one barrle move the load forward in the other. I was giddy with joy when I sold my Pedersoli SxS.

Click to expand...

Mine have NEVER moved in my 16ga double, even in a fire-one-barrel-multiple-times test and/or loads heavier than I now think suitable for the somewhat vulnerable stock of a flintlock double. I think the critical factor is the combination of overshot card fit and stiffness. The recommendation that I have read is that the card should be .020" larger than bore diameter, and all the commercial and home-punched cards I have used have been .020"-.032" larger than my bores.

I would suspect that the situation is similar with traditional loose (fiber, paper, leaves, etc.) wadding - one just needs to use enough and pack it sufficiently - but I have not worked with this much. Spence or others?

Regards,
Joel