Bethlehem Style Muzzleloader

I wanted to make a Bethlehem style of the downward slant butt on it. I have a piece of great constant curl wood. Most with that style have a sever heel drop - 5". I can only get a 4 1/4" drop at the heel. Before I take a bandsaw to the wood, will it work or am I going to have to change to some other school of muzzleloader. I hope I have explained myself enough.

I can't say I've ever seen one with that much drop. :idunno:

Several Bedfords have drops like that but their a breed of their own.

Better look at the history of the makers, someone somewhere made what you want.....step away from that bandsaw!

But it sounds more like a hockey stick to me with 5" of drop :shocked2:
Marc

I was wondering until I came across these specs on the internet from a gun at Muzzleloaders building supply. Drop at the heel 5".

STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS
Straight Octagon barrels”¦.......13/16 or 7/8”
Drilled ramrod hole ..........”¦.....5/16”or 3/8”
Barrel Channel Length ”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦........42”
Butt width x height”¦”¦”¦.......1-13/16” x 5”
Lock area ”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦.”¦......1-1/2” x 8”
Width across the lock face ”¦...........1-9/16”
Drop at the heel ”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦........5”
Trigger Pulls up to 15”

Are you basing the 5" drop at the heel on the pre-carve that Pecatonica sells as the Lehigh County rifle?

If so you should note that the drop at the heel is 5" with a 16" length of pull. If you project that with a more "typical" 13 1/2" length of pull, even 14 1/2" (which is my LOP and that is lonnnnnnnnng), the drop at the heel will not be 5" (so 4 1/2" would be more than enough and maybe a little too much once it's scaled properly to the LOP you want to build at).

But I would heed the above advice. If you are not working from a pattern (provided from a ML dealer/builder etc), make your own pattern first before you get a saw blade anywhere near the wood.

If you try and "make it up as you go along" you are going to end up with something that will only vaguely resemble a longrifle.

PS - I'm typing this reply from the "Best Western Lehigh" in Bethlehem PA - gotta stay somewhere while you are at Dixon's for the weekend :blah:

I had already drawn the gun out on the gunstock blank. It looks as if 4" drop is what I figure with a 14" pull. Do you think this is workable and also thanks for the information.

That should be drew :wink: :wink:

4" is a lot better drop than 5".

Have you ever shouldered a rifle with significant drop?

I like mine somewhere in the 3 1/2" range max - find they "sit" well.

So in response to your question, yes 4" is "workable".

I would ask however, have you calculated your own "ideal" drop??

With a "helper" you can calculate YOUR "fit" measurements. Now they are not written in stone but will give you an idea of what "your body style/shape/size" wants to hold.

If you vary too much from what will fit YOU, you will find you have to "contort" to an un-natural position which could affect your accuracy, comfort, felt recoil etc etc.

So it's one thing to build a rifle because you WANT IT (done that myself a few times) and another if you want an everyday shooter.

I just find for my "hunting rifle" a Maryland (Hagerstown) profile seems to be what "fits" most naturally for me (with about 3 1/2" of drop at 14 1/2" of pull).

Anyhow, here's how you measure yourself and figure what your numbers are:

Thanks for the information. Here is a link to the gun that I wanted to come close to making: http://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/riflesets/bethlehemlehigh.html. The drop at the heel seems to be excessive for what I am used to, but I am sure it would feel good or this gunmaker would not have made it like that. What do you think? What is your guess the drop at the heel is?

I made a number of them and 5" is too much. Get
a piece of cardboard the right size and make a
pattern and see how it fits before wood is even
mentioned....simple, no ?
Wulf

That's a good idea. 4" is the max I can get anyway, but is that too much. I'm going to try the cardboard. Thanks

Looks AND fit........tuff to juggle sometimes....

A sweet sixteen browning for shotguns and a older savage 99 fit me to a "T".....but my flinter might not look just right following that :hmm:
Cardboard rifles......I make a pattern...then make a wooden pattern......label em up :grin:

And I just heard the Dixons show has been already....it was LAST weekend :shocked2: :shocked2: :shocked2: :rotf:

Don't buy to much!! :surrender:
Marc

galamb, I took the calculations off of your picture and they show 4 1/2 drop at the heel with a 14" pull for me. All of the guns I've made have been 3 1/2 drop with a 14" pull, but they have mostly been Hawkens and Leman Trade rifles. I made a Kentucky Long Rifle with a Green River barrel some time ago, but it also had a 3 1/2 heel drop. The Bethlehem style seemed to have more of a severe drop though. The only way to know is with a template, I can see that.

Most builders who are unfamiliar w/ the Bethlehem/Lehigh style LRs usually get them wrong. There's very little leeeway in "getting it right" w/ the above styles using a blank.

Evidently from your rating of the blank, it'S
a nice piece of wood. So, here's my suggestion....have the butt profiled from an authentic model and if wanted, have them also do the bbl and RR work.



Also....study the many idiosyncracies of the Bethlehem/Lehigh style....why? Because the architecture is the most difficult to "get right" for this style......Fred

Fleto, I know what you're saying and that's why all the questions. I have looked at the Bethlehem style until I'm cross eyed.

Some of the greatest NEW Kentucky rifle makers that have existed, designed their own style, made the design for their own patch boxes, etc. To me the long gun is a piece of art, be it good or bad. I've made enough guns to know without enough wood off, or the wrong contour can ruin a graceful gun. I see some of the expensive guns Track of the Wolf sells, most good, but sometimes they only are fair to poor looking. Anyway, I agree with you in one sense, but I am not planning on having one pre-carved or the barrel inletted. If I ruin it, I ruin it, but it will be on my own. I only buy the blanks, inlet the barrel, and drill the ramrod hole. I have found better wood that way. I have a method of shaping it, after most everything is inletted, that only takes a 1/2 hour to get it better than the pre-carved ones. I agree, this style is going to be hard to make it a piece of art and I surely need all the information I can get. Thanks for all you guy's info.

Beg to disagree....a LR of a certain
"style" incorrectly designed and built is not a work of art. Build what you will and hopefully it'll turn out OK.......Fred

Thanks for the excellent bit of information and the drawing. I love that kind of stuff. I understand all of the measurements and the simple calculations. I assume that "D" is your length of pull. Is that correct?

"I have a method of shaping it, after most everything is inletted, that only takes a 1/2 hour to get it better than the pre-carved ones."

I would love to see this. Stock making has always been something that I would like to do but I just can't bring myself to give it a try. I lack the guts to start whacking away at an expensive piece of wood. Is there any way that you could post your method on Youtube. It would be a great way to share your knowledge and skills.

Bland to profile in 1/2hour????? :shocked2:
This I need to see!......I am on my 11-12th build, and I work a few DAYS to get to 'starting point'.....show us how you do this...please!

Marc

flehto, Have you heard any of the following gunmakers - George Stanford, Wallace Gusler, Robert Ditchburn, Carl Pippert or William Buchele. They produced gorgeous LR. Some designed their own patch boxes and butt plates, some didn't. They stayed within the limits of just what we are talking about.

By the way when I get the gun designed, cut out on the band saw and inletted, I could video the shaping. The secret, which is not a secret is to have a (2" belt) knife making sander. Most sanders go at about 8,000rpm's. The one I use, I think, goes at about 20,000 to 30,000 rpm's (24 to 32 grit)good quality metal sanding belts. It takes the wood down in a hurry. I took the guard off of the end and use that part more than any other part of the sander. You better have a plan when you start or you will certainly ruin an expensive piece of wood. As all of you know it is all hand work after that. Hope that information may help some out there.