frustrated pistol shooter!

Greetings! This is my first post, but have spent hours on the site reading various posts.

I am still new to ML and decided to buy a Pedersoli Kentuckian .54 caliber flintlock pistol kit. Despite being mechanically challenged, I finished the wood and got it together with not issues. My problem is at the range.

Day 1: I started with 40 grains 3F, a .530 RB, and .018 teflon ticking. I fired 3 shots at a target posted on a 4x4 backboard 25 yards distant. All 3 shots hit and “skipped” along the ground after ~10 yards. My hold was good and off a bag. I then increased the charge to 45, 50, and 55 grains (3F). I shot 2 shots each and never hit the backboard. When I stood ~ 10 yards in front of the target, I was hitting ~ 2 feet low.

Day 2: I thought the issue was a high front post, so next time I went out, I put a silver dot ~ ½ down the front sight. I again started at 25 yards with 55 grains 3F and have no idea where any of the balls were hitting. I ruled out too high a front sight. When I fired from ~10 yards, I was firing ~ 18” low and left (shooting left is “normal” for me with any gun or sight). My patches were not torn or burnt up.

I am not sure if it is me, the barrel, or patch/ball. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

oneoldboot

Wow...that is not good! Your description of the problem is very detailed and you have already ruled out the sights which would have been my first thought although at some point you may have to get out the files.

Here is my suggestion. Back off the powder charge. I shoot 70 grains of FFF in a 33 inch barreled .54 caliber trade rifle! I think 55 grains is way too much. Likewise 40 grains. I would start somewhere around 25 to 30 grains. I don't know what the twist is in that particular barrel but the powder charges seem a bit heavy for any pistol, even a .54 cal. Experiment with ball size and patch thickness as well.

I would also suggest that some of this is you. Bullet impact low and to the left indicates flinching. While you say shooting to the left is typical of you, that should not be the case. With a proper load in a well-sighted gun you should be hitting the center of the target.

Also, and then I will shut up and wait for others to express their opinions, stick to a 10 yard target until you have successfully shot several decent groups in the center. Then move out to 25 yards and see what you get.

MacRob46 said:

I don't know what the twist is in that particular barrel...

Click to expand...

I've never measured mine, but their website says 1:23" for the .54.

Several things could be happening and I can't examine the shooting of the gun from the keyboard.

An off center bore, a poor crown, inconsistent rifling depth that permits blow by, Follow through problem, sights, etc.

Have you shot from a bench with a rest. Shoot at a 15 ft square if you have to. use a dot for POA and see what groups develop.

Have you mic'd the bore at the muzzle to make sure it is not an abnormally large caliber.? (Years back, nearly all Italian muzzle loading guns had very tight, or abnormally small bores for their designation. ie a 44 might actually be a 43 caliber )

What you complain of could be due to a number of problems either with the gun, or yourself.

Back off to 20 grains.

What hold are you using? Right on or 6 oclock?

How heavy is the trigger pull? you unknowingly could be pulling the gun down with the trigger release. (I had that problem with my first CVA pistol)

Since you assembled the gun, the first thing I'd check is barrel tightness in the stock.
If that is OK, place the gun in a rest, clamp, whatever, and sight down the flat of the barrel ignoring the sights. See where it is pointing and place a cardboard box with a black circle where the barrel is pointing.
Now sight at the spot using the sights. If you have to move the gun much either the sights are off or the barrel isn't in the channel at the right angle.
Next mike the bore as suggested and use a patch that makes the load tight in the barrel.

If none of that works, throw the gun away.

If none of that works, throw the gun away.

I am now offering (free for an unlimited time) disposal of guns to be thrown away. Simply PM me and I can send a prepaid shipping label. No one wants there worthless firearm in their own trash. Glad to be of service!

FWI I offered same to a guy posting month or so ago about a custom built gun he planned to cut into pieces (even after an offer from builder for free repair). HE didn't take me up on it :shocked2: :idunno: ...don't ya'll make the same mistake.

Well, take a deep breath and relax. That 40 grain charge sounds about right. You could go up or down a little to find the most accurate combination. The .018" patch seems fine, a tighter (thicker) patch usually gives better accuracy. For example I have a .50 caliber inwhich I use 37 grains fffg and I started with a .010" patch and got 6" groups at 25 yards and then switched to a .018" patch- the only change, and the groups dropped to 2". The "Teflon" ticking. I don't know what that is- I use pillow ticking. In any event maybe buy some commercially sold pre-lubed patches just to eliminate that.
You said you are new to black powder. If there is a muzzle loading group in your area ask to join them for a shoot and get someone who shoots flintlock pistols to test the gun. There is enough lag/lock time in a flint to make it different from a modern gun.
Before working on the sights first find the best combination of patch, powder, etc. Once you have a tight group THEN modify the sights to shoot on target.
On a loose barrel, etc- if you find an experienced shooter and he is having trouble- then look to those areas.

Oneoldboot,It sounded at first as though you had a flinch like mine when I started shooting pistols. People push into the grip in flinching with a pistol. BUT, if your rested grip was good, I'd be suspect of the vertical gun sight alignment and patch material. The patch can do strange things when subjected to 4300(?) degrees F and pressure. I'd try Irish linen, cotton ticking, or even denim well lubed. Cheers, Tree.

Lots of variables can cause accuracy problems but my first instinct would be to fiddle with the powder. Drop the charge down to 30 grains and switch to 2f powder if you have some. Next, start shooting at 15 yards until you've dialed in your accuracy some then go back out to 25 yards. Could be patches, ball diameter, flinch or what ever but I'd start with the powder and range distance first.

Don

I wouldn't rule out the idea that the front sight is too tall.

On kit guns and a lot of factory guns the front sight is usually too tall.

The idea is, make the sight tall so the shooter can file it down to suit his/her choice of powder/ball load.

I read that you were shooting off a rest but even so, there is a tendency for shooters to "push against" the recoil when the gun fires.

This could cause the problem you are having.

If your not pushing against the recoil and you are shooting at 10 yards, measure the distance the ball hits from the point of aim in inches.

Divide that distance by 360.

Multiply the distance between the front sight and the rear sight times the answer of the above division.
That will give you the amount of material you will need to remove from the front sight to bring the group up to dead center.

I'm with Crockett...take a deep breath and relax. Your problem can be a bad crown, front sight with too much height, or even need a change in patch material. One thing I did notice was that most single shot pistols do better work with 30 to 40 grains of FFFg or 30 to 50 grains of FFg. You're probably overloading above that. Won't hurt the gun but it may be wasting powder. Different patching may help out too. Try a bit less powder and change one thing at a time. Just go slow and watch for changes.

Well, here's my two cents. There have been some good suggestions.

My first one is to find a good BP Kentucky or single shot BP pistol shooter at your club or range and ask him/her to try a few shots.

If that isn't an option, try 20 grains of FFF, a .015 patch and a .530 ball at 10 yards (if you are allowed this close).

The follow through is critical with any hammer BP pistol. I use a rubber faucet washer to protect the nipple and practice dry firing.

If you or a friend have one of those laser red dots for the barrel, try to use it along with faucet washer.

Practice dry firing before your next range trip, it's a cheap way to increase your 'shooting time' when a range trip isn't feasible.

Like I said, just my two cents, ymmv.

Lots of good suggestions here. None of them bad. I'd try all of them one at a time until you figured them out but first I'd move closer to the target. If you can't figure out where it's hitting, it make finding out what is wrong more difficult. I also think you are anticipating the shot and pushing it down. I as a range instructor have seen guys 10 yards from a eye level target shoot into the dirt because they were doing so. Start with a lower charge like 25gr. You can work up loads higher or even lower after things settle down and you figure out what is going on.

Well it may sound crazy but try a left hand hold. If you are pulling the shots by how you are pressing the trigger, etc- the shots ought to be groups the opposite with a left hand hold.
My humble recomemdation: use sandbags and a two hand hold and do everything possible to eliminate shooter form error and just test the gun. Maybe drop the charge way down (15 grs ffg) just in case recoil is an issue. If you can get the gun to group tight- then that is a big first step.

Sounds like you are getting a reflex reaction to the pan flash and with out realising you are pushing down and left , perhaps some dryfireing with a wood flint may help ,

I appreciate all of the thoughts and possible remedies to my range issue. I believe I will try to following approach:

1. Start off with 25 or 30 grains of 3F powder.
2. Limit my initial trials no more than 10 yards
3. Shoot with support for both the gun and my forearms.
4. Enlist the help of the fellas at the range. I will ask them for feedback, as well as to shoot it for themselves and share their thoughts.

In the meantime, I will also take the suggestion of doing some dry firing drills. After reading some of the comments, I feel it may be me flinching and pulling down. That makes complete sense to me.

Many thanks for the comments. I will reread these before I head out to the range.

You sound like me and my 1858 Remmie. I had (have?) all sorts of trouble hitting the target (at 25 metres). I got an experienced shooter, who also shoots one of these, to try it with my load - one shot, straight in the black, so I knew it wasn't the gun!
I then fired it from a rest (and set the cloth underneath it on fire ) and it shot well, so I knew it wasn't the gun!

Only problem is me.....

Keep at it, oneoldboot (what happened to the other boot?) you'll get there. To me, trying to work it all out is part of the fun.

One of the first things I would change is the patch material. Try pure cotton, tight weave like pillow ticking with a little lube like spit, olive oil, or a multitude of others.

+1 The first thing that jumped out at me is you said .018" teflon patch. Get thee to a fabric store and get some pillow ticking, pocket drill or duck. .015-.018 is fine. I use tighter in my rifles, but hard to load a pistol that tight.

I recommend using a .010 to .012 thick patch in a pistol.

While rifles work very well with the .015-.018 thick patches, they are IMO, too thick for use in pistols.

Pistols use much lighter powder charges than rifles of the same caliber use. These light powder charges don't need the very tight sealing that a rifle needs.

Thick patches used with the usual ball sizes are also difficult to start and to ram down the barrel while trying to hold the pistol.

In the case of a .54 caliber pistol a .530 diameter ball and a .010 thick patch will shoot very accurately.