need help with hopkins & allen

i just bought a very nice old h&a 45 cal. out of a pawn shop. it looks like it was put in a closet and never shot. i loaded 45gr. of swiss 3f and a 440 hornady rb. with .010 pre-lubed patch. it goes down the bore good but tight, after the first shot it goes down good until it gets about 2in from where it should seat, then you almost have to stand on the rod to fully seat the ball. the fired patches look a little rough with small holes in them. i think there is major fouling at the front of the chamber area after one shot. do you think it could be the powder or maybe a lite charge causing the fouling? maybe i should increse the charge? please help i really like this old gun.

thanks mike

sounds like a bit of rust down there. Take a brass bore brush dipped in a good lube oil and give it a good scrubbing. Follow with cotton oily patches. Mite swab between shots as well...Tom

I just read Tom's reply and I would be very careful using a brass brush in your bore. Those things have a habit of getting stuck and being a beast to remove. A better way of handling it is to wrap some 000 steel wool around an undersized brush such as a .40 or .36 caliber brush and scrubbing the area of the bore that you think has the rough spot. You will likely have to make several changes of the steel wool before you have the spot removed. Another way to scrub it is to use a piece of a green 3M scouring pad on an undersized jag to scrub your bore. Those things make dandy bore scrubbers. While you are at it, you might as well scrub the whole bore. Just keep your scrubbing pad wet with either soapy water or a light oil such as 3 in 1. Keep changing pads so you maximize the efficiency of your work. A worn out pad will just waste your time and energy. Be sure to scrub the entire length of the bore in nice even strokes so that the bore will be scrubbed evenly its whole length. A clean polished bore will make a world of difference.

thank yall so much for the good advice, i am in the middle of scrubbing now in the area of where it is tight and there is a lot of crud in that spot. i thought it was all clean becuse the bore was comming out clean, but the spot in front of the chamber has crud and light rust there. i am useing a bore brush and olive oil but i will switch to the scotch brite or steel wool. thanks again, when i get it all right and shootin good i will try to post photos. i took this gun apart and it is well made. from what i can tell it was made in the late 60's or early 70's

mike

If all else fails, those H&As had a unique breech plug. It was simply a stainless steel allen screw. Very easy to remove and replace.
Also, some H&A barrels were bored small. I sold from my shop and had several. Some required smaller balls, like .433". Good luck, I feel sure your problem is solvable.

Rifleman1776 said:

If all else fails, those H&As had a unique breech plug. It was simply a stainless steel allen screw. Very easy to remove and replace.
Also, some H&A barrels were bored small. I sold from my shop and had several. Some required smaller balls, like .433". Good luck, I feel sure your problem is solvable.

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rifleman am i correct were these rifles sold around the 60's or 70's ? just would like to know.

had one. needed 430 rd ball. u can getem from track of the wolf

If the brush gets stuck use a piece of copper tubing just smaller than the bore diameter and slide it down between the brush and the barrel and then remove them both.

Andy

I've only been using bore brushes since 1970, haven't lost one down there yet. Give it time I guess.....Tom

dixie cat said:

Rifleman1776 said:

If all else fails, those H&As had a unique breech plug. It was simply a stainless steel allen screw. Very easy to remove and replace.
Also, some H&A barrels were bored small. I sold from my shop and had several. Some required smaller balls, like .433". Good luck, I feel sure your problem is solvable.

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rifleman am i correct were these rifles sold around the 60's or 70's ? just would like to know.

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Yes, 1970s.

thank's for all the response, i cleaned it very good. after that it still loaded tight and almost impossible after the second shot. i am sure it has a real tight bore, so i took advice and ordered some .0433 balls from track of the wolf. i am sure this will fix the problem. i have a 50 cal. lyman gpr. flintlock but this little gun is a pleasure to handle, can't wait to get it shootin right.

I guess it's no longer under warranty. :wink:

You could also add two inches of powder to the powder charge to get beyond the rough spot, but that would probably be a bad idea.

Is the tight spot just a ring, or is it rough like that from there to the breech also? :hmm:

There is a guy, from South Dakota, that has a stainless steel pad for sale. I bought one at the local gun show in Alabama. You wrap some of that stuff on a smaller than the bore brush and scrub to beat hell. Pretty much removes anything...

The secret to not sticking a bore brush is to give it a half turn before trying to retrieve it. It bends the bristles off to the side so they can turn rather than jamb up when trying to reverse the bend on them.
Kind of like not petting the cat backwards! :rotf:

Was just going to toss out that little gem but ye have faster fingers! :thumbsup:

Uh-oh! I hope you haven't stirred up the muzzleloading evil spirits by using the term "never". They don't like that term and will usually end its use by you by making that thing with which you use the term "never" occur at the most inopportune time. It's like saying "I have never dry balled a rifle." You said that you have never stuck a brush. Now you have stirred them up and you had better be prepared to get a stuck brush out of your bore. :haha: :haha:

Uh oh! I'm in the same boat...though with any luck the "never-say-never" gods may be satisfied with all the other stupid things I've done with muzzleloaders and let it count toward a pass on the "I never dry-balled" brag! :wink:

FYI: The Dixie Gun Works catalog General Information section (under "Ball Sizes for Reproduction Guns and Barrels" states that the land to land measurement for H&A .45 cal rifles is .443 and recommends a .435 ball. In other words, they are closer to being .44 rifles than .45. I've never measured my H&A, but I'd recommend trying different balls 'till you find what you and your rifle likes.

Kobuk Kid said:

FYI: The Dixie Gun Works catalog General Information section (under "Ball Sizes for Reproduction Guns and Barrels" states that the land to land measurement for H&A .45 cal rifles is .443 and recommends a .435 ball. In other words, they are closer to being .44 rifles than .45. I've never measured my H&A, but I'd recommend trying different balls 'till you find what you and your rifle likes.

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Barrels of every manufacture can vary in size. This is not a game of exact/perzactness. I have needed balls of .433" size in H&As. Mostly I used .440" but that was just a matter of how the chips fell. One must try different ball sizes, different patches and lubes until the magic combo is found.