.45 P/B For Hunting

Hi all, having second thought`s about p/ball for a hunting load on deer, I was thinking a 270gr bullet would be the thing to use, harder hitting.
The .440 " p/b is only 130grs, but is a lot faster . My home made .45 has a fast twist, 1-33" and using a load of 50grs of fffg at 50yds it shot quite good, is this a good hunting load or should I try a bit more, It`s just that loading a bullet is harder while hunting, have to hammer them in ,p/b is a lot easier in the bush. I suppose I could load a bullet for the first shot then a p/b for my second. The p/b shoots quit good for my fast twist barrel, I thought this would be a problem , any thoughts on this, in NZ we stalk after the deer and 50yards is a long shot. homebrew.357 :hmm:

Thousands of deer have been taken with .45 cal. PRBs. If you keep the range reasonable and place the shot accurately your gun should be up to the task. Trying to shoot two different projectiles in your rifle, especially with fixed sights, on the same hunt, will probably result in misses. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

OK, well first, you need a very accurate round, make the shot placement count, and don't worry about a second shot. After placing the shot, wait a good 20 minutes, and while waiting, go ahead and reload. THEN go looking for the deer if you didn't see it fall in the first place. If you're shooting the deer, then following the blood, and then taking a second shot on a regular basis..., you're not hitting the deer in a vital spot or not waiting long enough before fetching it.

The mass of the heavier bullet doesn't mean necessarily that it will do more to the deer than the round ball. Diameter is diameter, and at 50 yards or less I think what the softer, patched round ball will do to the animal will be more than a typically harder conical. If both are made of soft lead..., at 50 yards I don't think there will be any significant difference. I would go with a patched, round ball (imho).

If you are hammering in your patched round ball, you are doing something wrong. Sounds like your ball diameter is too big or your patching is too thick. Your ball should load with a firm push by either the butt of your knife or a loading tool.

50 grains at 50 yards should get the job done. Here, in my state in The States, the minimum load for deer is 60 grains of BP, ..., which the government requires all calibers because the folks that wrote the law don't understand ballistics...., and a .440 round ball is zipping along at a pretty good speed with 50 grains of 3Fg. You could try 60 grains but if the accuracy suffers go back to what works.

LD

having second thought`s about p/ball for a hunting load on deer

Click to expand...

Why?
The .45 ball is plenty of gun for deer. I started with a 95 gr. charge but eventually cut back to 65 gr. as my standard. Up to 100 yards more charge ruins too much meat. If you can shoot, 100 yards is very possible, but the limit for deer.

I agree, a 45 PB should do the job fine as long as you do yours. How big are the deer critters in your neck of the woods?

homebrew.357 said:

Hi all, having second thought`s about p/ball for a hunting load on deer, I was thinking a 270gr bullet would be the thing to use, harder hitting.
The .440 " p/b is only 130grs, but is a lot faster . My home made .45 has a fast twist, 1-33" and using a load of 50grs of fffg at 50yds it shot quite good, is this a good hunting load or should I try a bit more, It`s just that loading a bullet is harder while hunting, have to hammer them in ,p/b is a lot easier in the bush. I suppose I could load a bullet for the first shot then a p/b for my second. The p/b shoots quit good for my fast twist barrel, I thought this would be a problem , any thoughts on this, in NZ we stalk after the deer and 50yards is a long shot. homebrew.357 :hmm:

Click to expand...

How big are the deer?
45 gr of FFF in a 45 with a .445 ball will kill deer at 50 yards.
If you start using conicals you need to check the bullet is on the powder before shooting since of the rifle is carried or even tipped muzzle down the bullet can slide off the powder.
If you need a 270 grain bullet you need a 58 caliber.
Read "The Sporting Rifle and Its Projectiles" by Forsythe. One of the later editions is available on line for download.

Dan

If you're hunting red deer, I'd go with a Maxi-ball or Maxi-hunter type bullet. The 1:33 should shoot these great.
Are you using almost pure lead to cast your bullets? If so, they should load a bit easier than a harder alloy. Also, the lube you're using for the bullet may need some tinkering. The heavier Maxi-type bullets will shoot to a different POA/POI than the round balls. Stick with one kind so you don't have to guess on your second shot ... if there is one.

50 yards with an animal the size of a red deer should be a fairly easy target to hit the vitals.

If you're hunting fallows or sikas, just go with the PRBs. That size deer don't need a whole bunch of whomping.

Over the years I've killed oodles (a scientific term much too complicated to explain here) of whitetails with loads of 60 to 80 grains of 3F. 50 grains is my state's minimum and will do just fine.

I dropped from a 45 prb to a 40 caliber prb after seeing the results of the 45 I had no issue using my favorite 40 cal for deer. Both kill verrrrry well. Just keep range under 75 yards is my rule, not really an issue though all shots are 15-40 yards

I have been hunting Eastern Ontario Whitetails for 8 years now with a 40 cal shooting a 92 grain round ball.

A 45 is "serious firepower" in comparison.

Over those 8 years I have taken 3 deer with it, all through and through shots (under 50 yards mind you) - other years had already tagged out in the bow season.

Last years buck, wrapped, "deboned" at 150 some pounds, so was easily over 200 lbs "live weight".

Shooting with extra "thump" may make you feel more capable/secure BUT if you are shooting at 50 yards or less then any caliber shooting a conical will not make up for poor shot placement.

A muzzle loader will NEVER develop enough "thump" to kill purely with shock like a CF will - so practice until you can hit your target with your eyes almost closed and put your "high powered" 45 cal with a PRB to good use - "shooting Bambi's" :grin:

Oodles, means a chit load...


I've killed that many or more with a .440 ball with 65-75grs FFF Goex...

Patocazador said:

If you're hunting red deer, I'd go with a Maxi-ball or Maxi-hunter type bullet.

Click to expand...

I'd agree with this in 45 caliber. Something roughly the size of our Elk is tougher than what a lot here are referring to as "deer."

The red deer is the fourth-largest ungulate species behind moose, elk and sambar deer. Western European red deer, historically, grew to large size given ample food supply (including people's crops), and descendants of introduced populations living in New Zealand and Argentina have grown quite large in size and antlers. Large red deer stags, like the Caspian red deer or those of the Carpathian Mountains may rival the wapiti in size

+2 on Spikebuck. :thumbsup: Larry

"How big are the deer?" = Precisely what I was going to ask.

Many thousands of our small but very numerous TX WT have been cleanly killed with everything from a .38SPL, .44SPL, .32-40, .25-35, .32-20 & .38-40, NONE of which are considered "powerhouses".

Thus a .440PRB should be FINE for ANY of our local deer.
Otoh, if he means RED DEER (out of Europe), I would want a .54, .58 ML or larger caliber & maybe with a HEAVY Minie Ball.
(I like my .58 with homebrew 530grain Minie for anything larger/tougher than a WT.)

just my opinion, satx

I wouldn't use the .45 on anything bigger than fallow and under fifty metres with 70gns powder. For red deer a .50 or .54 is fine. A .45 maxi might work better in the .45 for hunting but you would do better with a .54 roundball. There isn't much use for anything bigger than a .58.

Make sure your shots are broadside and take out the lungs. Your biggest problem will be keeping your powder dry!

satx78247 said:

"How big are the deer?" = Precisely what I was going to ask.

Many thousands of our small but very numerous TX WT have been cleanly killed with everything from a .38SPL, .44SPL, .32-40, .25-35, .32-20 & .38-40, NONE of which are considered "powerhouses".

Thus a .440PRB should be FINE for ANY of our local deer.
Otoh, if he means RED DEER (out of Europe), I would want a .54, .58 ML or larger caliber & maybe with a HEAVY Minie Ball.
(I like my .58 with homebrew 530grain Minie for anything larger/tougher than a WT.)

just my opinion, satx

Click to expand...

my thoughts too...euro reds are bigggg. Sika are tough and fallow can take some stopping. Thats my experience any how.
This feller if stuck with his 45 and a fast twist could consider a sizer for them bullets and a wad under then to ease the loading some. How about the Lee mold offerings?

B.

Fyi, years ago, I was present when a forstmeister, armed with a 9.3x57MM Mauser, put 4 rounds of 232grain JSP at about 2400FPS into the "engine room" of a crippled IIB Red Deer stag.
The deer went down 3x, got up & "left the scene" at HIGH speed. - We found him about 90 minutes later, over 3KM away, "bled out".

Anyone who doesn't think that a Rotthirsch isn't every bit as tough as a bull elk is living in a dream world.

yours, satx

Thanks for the replies guys, yep they are Red deer in N Z , a bigger animal than the W/tail, which we have also got over here and they aren't that small ether . So the .45 is what I`v got to work with and will work up loads for the 270gr bullet, Just finished my first tin of FFFG Goex, so will try some ffg to see how that goes with the heavy bullets.
As for going hunting I`m on hold at this time, waiting for my hip op ,so just range shooting for now to see what this Kiwi Hawken likes, Cheers, homebrew.357. :wink:

You will have to test for your own results. In my experince I find conicals are not as good at creating a killing wound as a round ball. Velocities are to slow for the extra umph(like oddels a scientific term to complex to explain here) that you get from more lead to translate in to mushrooming,killing wounds. Red deer being few and far between in the ozarks, I had thought when I read your post of our deer that don't often wiegh more the 150 lbs,often less then 100. I have hunted American ellk, that are close to red deer in size. You may find yourself much better served by a .54 or .58.
At ml velocities in ranges less then 100 yards, less then 50 in most cases I believe a prb to be the best killing projectile in an ml. However a .45 is smaller then what most american prb hunters would use on elk.

I agree the patched round ball is enough for white tail sized game. However for Red deer, I'd want a conical and a heavy powder charge. Use a felt wad like those offered by ox-yoke over your powder.