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.30 cal. at 100 yds.

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Beautiful, rifle!! Shoots as good as it looks.

I've been in the small caliber/long range, discussions before. I have no problem with shooting paper, or targets at any distance. But, some of the hunting guys, start getting a little defensive, when shooting at game animals, at long distance, and rightfully so. Your test example, actually proves the point. You, did your research, and knew the approximate velocity, increased your normal charge to achieve that velocity, knew the yardage, sand bagged the rifle, superimposed a target above the intended target, and knew, that there was very little wind. This is a lot of fun, and your shooting, was great. But, I understand "you" were just seeing what the capabilities, of your rifle at long range was. My problem is when people want to use animals, as targets. I think that is what turns these discussions, into arguments.

I just bought a 36.cal. built by some unknown, in 1980. It's not a very pretty rifle, but has a Douglas barrel, and early test, shows it might shoot as well. You got me interested, and next range trip, I'll see what she does. I might have to use, your idea of a secondary target above the intended target, because I doubt if I will be able to see a 2" target at 100 yards.

Thanks for sharing the information and photos. One of the nicest rifles, that I've ever seen.
 
gard72977 said:
Those ear muff look like they are for the same era!
You got that right. Everything I own is from an early era, and I'm from an even earlier one. :haha:

Spence
 
George said:
gard72977 said:
Those ear muff look like they are for the same era!
You got that right. Everything I own is from an early era, and I'm from an even earlier one. :haha:

Spence
I don't even want to talk about it! Excellent shooting by the way. I keep trying to point out long range shooting is possible if you get a good mental grip on the trajectory and drift involved. So glad you did this, saved me some fussin' & cussin'! :thumbsup:
 
George said:
Still, a fun project, and I learned something about my little gun, and that always makes for a good day.

You got that right, and thanks for reporting it.

Reminds me of the time we took a friend's 62 cal smoothbore pistol down to the beach and loaded it with 20 grain charges. There was a log floating about 150 yards offshore, and we proceeded to use the setup as a "mortar." Had an absolute ball, and a few times hit close enough to splash water on the log. Fun ended when we ran out of ball, after shooting up the whole bag of 100 he had with him! :haha:
 
Let me dispel some nonsense. The smaller ball will, in fact, be more effected by wind than the larger ball. The effect of the wind is a function of the cross sectional area of the ball. The cross sectional area of a ball is calculated the same as the area of a circle having the same radius. That is, the cross sectional area of a ball is Pi times the square of the radius. If we compare two balls, the first ball is a .30 caliber ball (Let's assume 0.290 inches in diameter), the second ball is a .50 caliber ball (Let's assume 0.490 inches in diameter). The .30 caliber ball has a cross sectional area of 0.066 sq. in. and the .50 caliber ball has a cross sectional area of 0.189 sq. in.. This means that the cross sectional area of the .50 caliber ball is 2.86 times that of the .30 caliber ball. Thus for any given wind, the .50 caliber ball will receive a force 2.86 times greater than the .30 caliber ball. To further simplify things, lets remove another variable by assuming that both balls are traveling at the same velocity.

The inertia or resistance to change of direction in this case is a function of mass. The mass of a sphere is a function of its volume. When comparing the two balls, I am making the assumption that both balls are made of the same material. In this case, both will be assumed to be made of the same lead alloy. The volume of a sphere is calculated using the formula Volume = 4/3 Pi times the radius cubed. The volume of the .30 caliber ball is 0.013 cubic inches while the volume of the .50 caliber ball is 0.062 cubic inches. The volume of the .50 caliber ball is 4.77 times greater than the volume of the .30 caliber ball. Therefore, the mass of the .50 caliber ball is 4.77 times greater than that of the .30 caliber ball.

What all this means is that the force of the wind against a .50 caliber ball when compared to the force against the .30 caliber ball is 2.86 times greater. But the mass of the .50 caliber ball, which provides the inertia to continue in a straight line, is 4.77 greater than the .30 caliber ball. Therefore, the larger the ball, the less it is effected by the wind. It's simple Newtonian physics. That warmth that you are feeling is enlightenment. :haha:
 
Lyman book gives bullet coefficient for the .495 rb at .070 and the .310 rb at .045. Hornady ballistics chart show the .495 @ 1800 fps. and a 10 mph ninety degree cross wind with a wind drift of 78.8 inches at 300 yds. The .310 @ 1800 fps., same wind, was showing a wind drift of 115.3 at 300 yards. However the drop at 300 yard was more than twice with the .495

I give up.
 
Using your numbers and assuming both rifles sighted at 75 yards with a sight height of .85" I get different answers with the Horniday calculator.

Drop
.310 = 170
.495 = 117

Drift
.310 = 115.5
.495 = 78.8

Which agrees with Billnpati's conclusions...

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Billnpatti said:
That warmth that you are feeling is enlightenment. :haha:
Thanks for pointing that out, I was afraid I had wet my pants again. :haha:

Good post.

Spence
 
I have a friend that shoots a 40 cal in competition at our local matches along side all the rest of us that are larger calibers. He is a regular winner or in the top 3. We shoot the standard offhand agg. One day I asked him how he shoots those good scores in the wind. His answer to me was " I don't shoot in the wind". Which meant he would wait on the line until he got the wind condition that he wanted before he took his shoot. Not all shooters are this diciplined. My wife has shot the best offhand target that I have ever seen at 100 yrds. It was a 47 2x and she was shooting a 36 cal rifle. I regularly shoot my 32 pistols at 50 yrds with very good results.

My point is that the small cal guns can be very accurate out to 100 yrds. You just have to be a little more particular in a windy situation to make your shots count.
 
That's what I wrote the wind drift was 78.8 with the .495 and 115.3(115.5) with the .310

I don't remember the drop numbers, we were discussing wind drift.

It did confirm what Bill said.
 
How many here has actually competed at 300 yards in an ML match?

Ft Ty had a 300 yard match for BR, my 50 cal Shannon UH with a FM GM barrel and Redfield match sights did not have enough elevation for it. I had to place a sighter target above the record target and figure it in from there.
The big bench bullet guns ruled that match not a RB gun caliber disregard RB ain't able for that.
 
The interesting thing here is the twist rate. 1:56 is 1.86x caliber. Conventional wisdom is that 1.20-1.25x caliber is optimum. Do you use fairly heavy charges in that little pea xhooter?
 
I've only used that gun for squirrels, so I've always been loading it down, not up. I shoot 15-20 grains 3F normally, but back when I bought it I sighted it in at 25 yards using 25 grains 3F. That's the most I've ever shot in it.

The slow twist rate is characteristic of barrels by Bill Large. I don't know what his thinking was about that.

I like slow twists for small and large calibers, myself, I guess because I've had such good results with them. My .40 caliber Douglas barrel is 1:66, and it handles anything from 20 to 70 grains 3F. My .54 is a GM barrel with 1:70.

Spence
 
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