Hunting up a hunting gun.

For about two and a half years I’ve been saving up for a hunting gun. Saving with all the ups & downs that real life throws in. So far my “gun Fund” has died for family twice & been on life support once. However, I got an award at work (the kind I like, no plaque just a card & $400.) and I finely got paid back another $150 that I spent for them out of pocket in August! Add to that a $50 tip I was given & my Gun Fund doubled last week. While $1200 not enough to order (I hope to keep my end cost near $2500), it is enough I had better start getting my ducks in a row.

It’s time to start Hunting up a hunting gun.

And That is where I could use advice from both builder & buyer. Getting down to the “that is the gun I want” point is stumping me.

I could use advice on how you as a buyer got there, or how as a builder you helped others get there. I do not have a persona, nor am I reenacting (so I don’t have that to help me narrow the choices). I am looking for a rifle to take game with. Mule Deer, Elk, Black Bear.

Every smoke pole I have had up to now is a pawn shop, yard sale, gun.

I am jammed up against the thought that I will pick wrong.

Man! I thought I had it all down in my head. Then when I started putting it down as a list, the word “or” is getting way too much use.

What I think I know
Rifle not smoothbore; Deer & elk out west will be this guns stock & trade.
No patch box; I don’t use the ones I have.
Wood; I am leaning hard toward Cherry, but American walnut is in second place.
Furniture; iron
Bluing; hot, mostly aesthetic, I think the deep blue with Iron & cherry would work well.

Things I have narrowed down but not set yet
Caliber .54 to .62
Jaeger or English Sporting Rifle
Lock; I am really thinking about Jim Chambers Golden Age Flintlock. Here is why; I have never owned a quality flintlock, so I have some apprehension about my happiness with a flint. From what I have read here I “think” I will be happy with one, but buy going with the “Golden Age” I hedge my bet, if I end up wanting to convert to percussion ignition.
Other aesthetics; forend / nose cap. Also just a bit of carving on the stock along with a trace of silver wire to highlight the carving.

That is about as far as I am. When I read it, it looks like I have 5 min. thought into it, not 2 years :td: Once I know what I want, I will start looking at builders who's work encompasses my wants.

take a look a what Clay Smith has to offer, just to see a few different styles. He's some nice used guns.

Sean, you've probably already done this, but I like to just peruse the websites of builders and look at the guns they show there. I constantly look through Track of the Wolf's online gun sales and go through all the pictures to see what I think I like or don't like and the styles. For a rather small fee, ToW will give you access to their gun archives online and you can see more guns than you'd probably want to with descriptions, etc. This, along with any "list" I have, gives me insight into what I might want.

Many of the attributes you list certainly would be found in a Jaeger stocked in a piece of fine Walnut. Not sure how many Jaegers had steel furniture, but brass with a nice Patina doesn't seem to spoke game. Don't know if that's why you didn't want brass or if it's just because you don't like it.

I'd also comment that I believe you will like Flint, but you are right to go to a high-quality flint lock. There is something about shooting a flinklock that's pretty special, and I find them to be very reliable. If you get one, I doubt you'll be converting it to percussion. :grin:

Good luck in your choice. Whatever it ends up being, it'll be a beauty and serve you well.

Based on what you have said I personally would try and talk you into a 54 cal - should easily suit your "caliber" needs and supplies for a 54 are still pretty easy to come by (balls, conicals, ramrod accessories etc).

If you like english sporting rifle styles a half-stock in Walnut would look very sweet.

I would be inclined to use a tapered barrel, perhaps 1" tapering to 7/8" in the 32-34" range - would keep the weight balanced and respectable.

You mention Chambers Golden Age lock. It is a great lock (built with one) but I would suggest that instead you consider Chambers Late Ketland (Track of the Wolf calls it the Classic Ketland - same lock exactly).

According to Jim Chambers and every builder that has ever used one it just might be the fastest, smoothest flintlock ever built by Chambers - and that is saying something.

It would also be a perfect choice for an english rifle - thousands had original Ketland locks.

You also note a Jaeger. Those can be made to look awesome, but just my personal taste would be with a 1/2 stock english stocked with Walnut - sweet.

On my big bore I lucked up on an awesome stock for CHEAP that the channel had already been roughed-in at 1" straight. Did some quick calculations and realized that if I went 1"x42" in .62 caliber, the barrel only weights 1.25 lbs. more than my 13/16"x42" in .40 caliber....and that one I can shoulder all day. If my stock hadn't already been started I would have probably went either tapered .58 or a shorter swamped barrel, but it's not meant for offhand work anyways.

Just me but if I chose a jaeger (wonderful choice), I get Chambers early Germanic - the graceful curve of this lock is perfect for a jaeger - a 31" to 36" swamped .62 barrel with radius rifling. For an English sporting rifle I'd opt for a swamped .58 x 36" barrel and the previously mentioned early Ketland. My stock would be hard, plain maple.

I'm a loving fan of the 54, but for you western guy's it's gotta be the 58cal. Superior end ballistics yet not as heavy as the 62 that looses so much energy downrange.
Definitely a swamped barrel. There is a huge difference in the way a swamper feels and handles. 36" is a good bet.
Yes, the Chambers lock and right from Chambers for the no hassle lifetime warranty. The Ketland is supposed to be their fastest lock, but it's measured in fractions of a second.
For a hunter, I'd walnut or plain jane hard maple.
Davis Double triggers.

A lot of choices and tuff because of the many variables and opinions. I'd focus $$ on the lock, barrel an triggers.

I do Rendezvous, so my choices tend to run as a multi purpose,
If I was to choose a strict work horse hunter,, another vote for the Jaeger style but I wouldn't be too concerned with sticking an exact following of the school.

Have you considered a .58 caliber Leman replica with interchangeable flint & percussion locks?
(Years ago, I had a boarding school chum that had one & it was suitable for elk, black bear & moose & "carried nicely" either horseback or afoot.)

The .58 hits HARD & has any number of sorts/weights of minie balls, REAL bullets and PRB, because of the .58's popularity with WBTS folks & hunters.
(Provided that the barrel is suitably rifled for CB & RB.)

Even I, who is "no great shakes" at casting, can cast perfectly suitable 530GR minies that "fly true". Further, even my Zouave ("musketoon"/short rifle/carbine or whatever you choose to call it) is DEADLY out to 150M. - A long-barreled Leman should be GREAT for general big-game hunting.

yours, satx

Sean Gadhar said:

Jaeger or English Sporting Rifle
Lock; I am really thinking about Jim Chambers Golden Age Flintlock.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the Golden Age is appropriate for neither Jaeger nor English Sporting rifle. you could use one, but the end result won't really be a Jaeger or English rifle. Another problem is that in order to easily switch ignitions, the percussion drum really has to be fitted first. :hmm:

What variety of English Sporting rifle are you looking at? Chambers makes a very nice little 18th century version based on the William Turvey rifle in Rifles of Colonial America that would do very well in cherry and iron mounts with a bit of wire inlay - the original doesn't have a nosecap but I have pictures of a similar rifle probably made for an English gamekeeper that has a brass nosecap, or alternatively you might use a German-style horn nosecap.

In regard to ignition, I'd suggest that you choose the best and most appropriate flintlock available for rifle you want. If worst comes to worst, you could always ask your gunsmith to do a true conversion by cutting away the pan - he won't like the idea much, I bet, but I doubt it would be much more trouble than trying to get the drum to match a commercial percussion plate already inlet into the lock.

I say .58 and buy a mold. LOTTA knock down power and more "stuff" available than a .62. I have 3 and love em though only use for elk and buffalo. I use a .50 for deer. Keep us posted and keep savin!

The wife was a little under the weather so I stayed in today. Used the time to read posts on Caliber. I really think I would be happy with .54,.58,or .62. After a day of reading, if I had to pick right this second it would be .58 cal.

I went through A LOT of posts, one a post with a side by side .54 v.58 chart left me thinking a .58

Sounds like your afraid u might not like flintlocks and want the option to switch to percussion later. If this is the case have them build the gun as a percussion first because it important the drum lines up correctly for percussion lock. The vent liner will fill the drum hole perfectly and the otrch hole location will be close enough for great ingition. Its the way to build a converatble gun. Most builder will only charge ya the money for the extra lock, and drum/liner and cost to finish it to the gun.

Know what I'd at least look at getting...

The Pedersoli .54 Mortimer Standard (maybe the Target Standard especially if Caribou were on your list or the Target Deluxe as you want some embelishment: it "is enriched with gold inlays and engraving on the polished steel lock and fitting, and with the name “Mortimer” in gold letter on the barrel).

Sean, here's my experience after buy two custom made muzzled loaders, one percussion and one flint. Too many times when we get into sports like this we tend to see all the nice, fancy stuff that is offered by the factories and get it our mind that is what we want, and for some folks that works out just fine. In my case however, no production rifle has enough length of pull to fit be comfortably. In fact instead of the guns fitting me, I was have to fit myself to the gun. Nothing ever had that "just right" feel when I shouldered it. Find a builder that can explain and suggest things like length of pull, cast off and drop, then decide on a style that you want. It may be that Perdersolli has what you want and that fits you; http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sc...rifles-mortimer-mortimer-target-standard.html
But looking at your budget, there doesn't seem to me to be a need to sink that kind of money into a rifle you'll be using a lot in the field. Might I suggest getting a working mans gun in the style you want without embellishments and expensive add on's? Also, for what you plan on hunting I suggest a 54 caliber. Popular if you don't cast your own RB's and carries more than enough energy to pass through a well shot critter at 100 yards. Don't worry about having to find a conical that will be accurate out of your rifle as the RB has all you need and history to back it up.

Sean

Are you going to hunt with a RB or conical? I assume you will be hunting in the mountains more than the plains?

These are thinks to think about for cal, and for style type of rifle.

If you plan on casting you don't have to worry about buying the balls or conicals. So a odd cal does not really matter.

I don't think with your choices that you can make a wrong choice.

Fleener

Sean- this is a .54 English Sporting Rifle built by my friend Neill Fields and raffled off at the Fort Bridger Rendezvous two years ago. The winner sold it to another friend, who thinks it is the best handling ML hunting rifle he has held. I also like it and so built a copy of it using local walnut.

Top is my .58 flint Hawken I built and hunted elk with, but it is too long and heavy for me to shoot in our matches, so I made an English Sporting Rifle which is very comfortable to shoulder. .54 caliber, 32" Chamber's Jaeger swamped barrel, Chambers English Fowler lock, I think it weighs 7.5 pounds. I have not yet shot it.

I like the contrast of white metal and so will bees wax the metal to start with, and keep it that way if I like it. I made the length of pull 12 7/8", much better than my heavy 13 5/8" .58 Hawken. I think the .54 is a good caliber for our western hunting, but if mostly for elk I'd choose .58.

Start out cheap, that way if you don't like flintlocks, you won't have to agonize over dumping a finely crafted custom rifle.

Consider the Lyman Deerstalker in .54 flint. It will give you an honest intro into flintlock shooting, is easy to handle and carry, and is plenty accurate. I can hit grapefruit-sized targets at 100 yards with mine. It performs 100%.

Should you decide you like flint hunting, you can build something 'purtier' later.

If you don't like flint, with the Deerstalker you will be only out a few hundred, not a thousand or more.

AZbpBurner said:

Start out cheap, that way if you don't like flintlocks, you won't have to agonize over dumping a finely crafted custom rifle.

Consider the Lyman Deerstalker in .54 flint. It will give you an honest intro into flintlock shooting, is easy to handle and carry, and is plenty accurate. I can hit grapefruit-sized targets at 100 yards with mine. It performs 100%.

Should you decide you like flint hunting, you can build something 'purtier' later.

If you don't like flint, with the Deerstalker you will be only out a few hundred, not a thousand or more.

Click to expand...

I agree with try the Deerstalker and if you don't like it you could resell and almost get all your money back there is always people looking for the Deerstalker in Pa.

Sean, just my opinion here but I was about where you are at 3 years ago. I made up my list of wants like you have and then went to a custom builder. You only go around once so I would not go the cheap / used route for 2 reasons.

1) Cheap may not function well in a flintlock and that could turn you off to flinters before you get a fair chance to love em.
2) If you have good luck with the cheap one then you will be in the same boat as you are today looking for a custom.

I went with a 58 caliber plain Southern Mountain Rifle flinter. No patchbox, iron mounted and browned. It will nicely take down anything you are hunting. I would insist on a Chambers lock which in my opinion is the best.

So go for the gold first time around. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Regards,

Dave

I'd recommend a T/C Renegade flinter in .54, all the rifle you'll ever need, and cheap too! Basically would look like the one Alden posted.