Looooong Range shoot at Friendship

Shouldn't we have this match at the NMLRA Spring Shoot and/or Fall National Shoot? The long range stands did not seem to be really crowded with shooters last June.
At our local (modern) range, they have only 375 yards and you cannot shoot there as a guest even for a fee. Since I can shoot around 100 yards in my backyard, I really don't want to spend $150 to become a member there and be able to shoot 200 and 375 yards.
I think it would be a really cool addition to our forum woodswalk match. I do not care much for primitive matches beside the woodswalk, the Fort Greenville Shoot and the archery range. I think they are mostly pretty boring and lack historical ties despite the Seneca runs etc.

Shouldn't we have this match at the NMLRA Spring Shoot and/or Fall National Shoot?

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We can if you want to run it. :grin:
Feel free to post the details here. You're in charge. :hatsoff:

Now, the forum woodswalk is on Sunday morning of the first weekend. Is there anything special going on Sunday afternoon from the primitive side (widowmaker special matches etc.?)
Firing 20 shots will take some time. So we need two, better four 45 min relays (assuming that they fire 13 shots in 45 min for the international offhand matches it should us take max. 90 min to fire 20 shots).
Weapons: Any sidelock ML guns of any caliber one wants to use with open iron sights of any configuration (traditional flip up sights would be ok, but no peep tang sights). PRB only. A range rod may be used. Shots can be fired offhand, from cross sticks, from a prone position either unrested or rested (chunk of wood or sandbag or similar). No shooting benches. The carry strap may be used as a shooting sling.
What do you guys think? :hmm:

I don't know of anything special Sunday afternoon.
Actually the Forum Woodswalk has been interfering with the Widowmaker woodswalk on Sunday morning. I might schedule the forum woodswalk for Saturday this spring if it's OK with the holder of the trophy plate.

Saturday afternoon I guess? A lot of people are still traveling to the shoot on Saturday morning imho.

20 shots at 400 yards takes a little longer than 45 minutes. It takes a while to call the fall of the shot with good optics and figure out where to hold for the next shot. You also need to let the barrel cool down. Heat mirage is one problem you don't need when trying to hit a target at 400 yards.

Better figure 90 minutes for a relay.

Many Klatch

I already figured 90 minutes, that would make the match run over two 45 min relays (45 min is the standard relay length on the long range ranges as far as I know).If we can reserve four 45 min relays, that would allow some wiggle room if we have some more participants.

I would out out cross sticks. They already have many cross stick matches. I would say offhand or any body supported position.

Many moons ago I ran a one day only match based on a well know target shot by Ezekiel Baker in 1800. Mr. Baker shot 24 shots at a man sized target at 200 yards offhand. I set this match up on the un used end of the bench rifle range which has 45 minute relays. I contacted the NMLRA president well in advance so this one day match
was listed in Muzzleblasts. I provided the target and on the day of the match you are there running the match all day long. I had the help of a good friend so we got to eat and go to the bathroom. Round ball only. I was hoping The match would catch on and become a regular match. But we did not have a good turnout. We had a lot of onlookers but only six shooters had the "stones" to throw round balls at 200 yards off hand.

I am not sure that at 400 yards there are any target stands?

What space on the line are you planning on trying to reserve? You will meet some objection if you are planning on taking time during a weekend from any of the traditional users of the long range line.

Fleener

IMO the better way to shoot this since it's an informal match would be to have it right after the last relay of the day. knock the number of shots down to 5 and see who can hit the mini creedmore target at 500yrds. it'd be simple and much faster too shoot plus you could get 5 guys shooting at the same time since there is 5 mini creedmore targets up. and you wouldn't be in anyone's way.

At Friendship there are target stands at 400 yards. BUT, to be able to do this you need to see where the shots are falling. The 400 yard stands are completely surrounded by grass. No Joy there.

We wound up wiring our targets to the 400 meter silhouette frames. That distance is actually about 437 yards. The silhouette target frames are backed with crushed limestone and you can see the fall of the shot much better.

Many Klatch

Medic, it took us about 10 shots to figure out the drift and drop for our roundball before we even started getting close enough to get a hit. 5 shots probably won't be enough for a hit unless you have practiced a lot.

Don't forget. At Friendship you are shooting up a fairly steep hill at 400 and 500 meters. That will mess up your calculations as well.

Many Klatch

There are a few possibilities:
1. "Highjack" an existing match like match No. 320. We can put the official target on a backer cardboard target stand that represents our inofficial target. We can then score our unofficial target before turning in the official one. Match 320 fires 13 shots at 300m with 10 shots counting within a 45 min relay. This match is also in danger of being dropped, though they would definitely welcome some "competition" imho, LOL. And even though it is not 400 yards, it is still around 330 yards.

2. Put up a complete new match. This is more complicated and would require more logistics from our side. We would also not go into all the trouble Ricky had when he set up that Baker match and hardly anyone showed up.

For both options we would have to speak to the range officer in charge beforehand to make sure how many stands we can use and we can also have a sign up list here on the forum so we know who shows up and when. Goal is to minimize waiting times and to ensure a smooth run.
I don't think it makes much sense to run a special match after official range time.
Everyone who thinks about participating may chime in with opinions.

I don't think it makes much sense to run a special match after official range time.

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Seems to work for the Fort Greenville.

Correct, but this is on the primitive range.
We would have to do that on the "regular" range to shoot the long range. I don't know how easy it is to set something up like this in that environment. Only visited once there to see the creedmore match.
My concern is, that this match takes time. Much more than the 6 minutes a team shoots at the Ft. Greenville. The additional amount of shots calls for a little less primitive setting to start with, because more cleaning etc. will be required. If we have 15 people showing up at one time, it will get very crowded in a heartbeat imho. With "highjacking" an existing match, we may stretch that over an afternoon or so.

I am one of the guys that normally hangs out on the mini Creedmoor line. The past couple of years not so much since I have been taking my son with me. He likes shooting shotguns more.

Like any group of shooters, no one like their line hijacked.

If you are insistent on shooting this on that line, the last 2 relays of the day are normally not too busy.

I don't like it, but people will stake our their territory first thing in the morning and might leave their shooting pad there all day. Kinda like the slug guys, they never more their stuff.

Fleener

The firing line is not a "place at the pool in a FL resort" imho. It would be the last 4 relays of the day anyways. Occupying the line with someones stuff and then leaving and blocking it is a bad habit. They better change it, otherwise we may do the same (putting down beach towels and a pair of cross sticks, lol).
But I don't think this will be a problem.
"High jacking" was a term to fit this match into an existing one. If this match is already in danger of being dropped, the participation is obviously lacking. As long as our rifles and our "submatch" fit into the regulations of this match, no harm is done to anyone. Everyone wins: We can shoot a long distance forum match, our numbers are counted toward this match and it will be offered for the "regular" shooters in the future as well.
This is the reason I don't want to do a "come anytime" match, but a match where I have a list with people with designated time frames.
This will make sure we all get to fire and finish the match before the trophy is awarded.

Fleener, can you tell me what target we shoot at on match 320? Is this the NRA 300m C1 target? 36" wide x 42" high with around 24" of black? Found here: http://www.pistoleer.com/targets/highpower/

The idea is, that we form teams of 2 shooters. One shoots, the other is the spotter. We need to make sure we have 4-5 spotting scopes and tri-pods there. 13 shots also seems to be doable in 45 min imho, but 2 relays may be used.

You might not think that the firing line is not like a place at the pool, but in reality it certainly is at friendship! Last year at the trap range my son shot the last relay before the mandatory lunch hour it is closed, we left our stuff like most people and came back to the first relay after lunch, only to find that apparently one of the long time shooters wanted our spot and he moved our stuff. I did not say a word to him, but it was very rude.

Keep in mind that match 320 is not the only one that is shot from that line. You could have 8 guys shooting the same relay but each in a different match.

Also keep in mind that if you are shooting off hand with a round ball gun with shooters that don't really know how much to hold over and how to play the wind at longer ranges with a RB you can have balls going everywhere. Might be a source of frustration for anyone that is shooting in a regular match.

If you think this will come across as a Win/Win to the long range shooters, you have not met Bob Westlzer yet.

Why not go down to the slug gun line and shoot 300 yards? Move their shooting benches that are left unattended? The fall out from that would be interesting to watch as well.

C1 is the correct target.

13 shoots is very doable in 45 min.

Please keep in mind that I travel over 500 miles each way to come to Friendship to shoot. I shoot on sat., sun, and Monday. My time is very limited. The first weekend is the busiest time on the line. I would be very frustrated to find that I could not shoot for a few relays or if I was still able to shoot and had RB's going everywhere.

I am not saying that you should not do this, but you just need to realize that anyone outside of the merry band of RB shooters shooting this match will most likely take a very dim view of it.

Fleener

please give some serious consideration to just having the match the last 2 relays on Sunday. Those relays are typically very sparse with shooters, and your disruption should be at a minimal for any shooter on the line.

With 2 man teams, you can cycle through 20 shooters in 2 relays. I doubt you will have more than 20 shooters.

You will need to be organized and have vehicles to be able to drive to the 300 yard targets. Sure you can walk, but that will keep the range closed between relays for a longer period and just make more people mad up and down the line.

Fleener

Right now, not even the day is set in stone.
I perfectly understand that the first weekend is the most crowded. I usually only come to Friendship from Saturday to Tuesday after the Fort Greenville match myself. But I only have a 3 hour drive.
Right now, no one said that we will shoot purely offhand , since this is pretty unrealistic even for a historic combat situation.
Yes, we have limited experience shooting this kind of distance, and round balls may fly around. But round balls are allowed for this match, so this is kind of expected by the match creators. Just because everyone is using the utmost worked up bullet and the most sophisticated sight allowable, that does not mean you can't shoot with different equipment. It is like compound archers shooting together with primitive archers. As long as the equipment stays within the rules, you're fine and it is no-ones business as long as there is no safety concern.
Is Mr.Bob Westzler the range officer there?
Do you have any statistics how many people are shooting the long range matches? If not, I can inquire myself.
I definitely plan to "reserve" 2-4 relays for this match. Depending of course on how many are signing up on here and that will determine how many relays.
This forum match should not be an interruption, but an opportunity for everyone who likes to try. Like the forum woods walk which is a lot of fun.

Another important part will be:
If people are signing up here for this match and I reserve time for say 20 shooters and at the end only seven show up, this will not benefit anyone.
I plan to do this match as a non-refundable prepayed match, so if you decide to not show up, the "300m range" will get at least the proceeds for the time we signed up and the target you payed for. At $2.50 that shouldn't be a big deal.
I want to avoid to do all the organizational work and then no-one shows up.