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Pedersoli 1861 Springfield, need help.

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Enfield1

40 Cal.
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
381
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Location
Columbus, Georgia
Fellas,

I got a brand new 1861 Pedersoli Springfield. The Dixie catalogue recommends a .575 minie. I already own a Lyman .575213 mould. I cast some rounds and went to the range. I thought they would fly well because they seem to fit just right in the barrel. No luck. They are tumbling end over end down range with no accuracy at all. Doing a search on Youtube, I saw some French guy in France shooting the same rifle by Pedersoli after he had put his rounds through a sizing die. Is this what I need to do? Wouldn't that make the rounds even less accurate? I need guidance because as it stands now, my Brown Bess is much more accurate than my Springfield. :confused:
 
Is your 575-213 a hollow base mold? What powder & charge are you using? My Zouave is very accurate with the Ideal 575-213 HB un-sized and lubed with bore butter over 80 gr ffg Goex. You may need to play with the powder charges. too slow/fast and the boolits will tumble. If your boolits fit the bore you shouldn't have to re-size them.
 
Some things we need to know to help you out.

Are you casting pure lead? What temperature?
How are you lubing and what kind of lube?
Do you know your bore size? Your minie should be
.001-.002 undersize. What size are they coming out of the mould at? A sizing die of the correct diameter will get it to the correct size and
clean away excess lube.

You can try the forum on www.nssa.org and ask them about experience with the '61 Pedersoli.

Duane
 
Last edited by a moderator:
My lead is pure lead dug from the dirt berms at my black powder only club. The lead is melted ( I'm unaware of the temperature). It is fluxed with paraffin wax and poured into my mould. Yes, the minnies are hollow based with a reasonably thin skirt that I thought would grab the rifling well. I lube with "old zip" brand lube that is a combination of mutton tallow and beeswax. I tried a 60 grain charge of schuetzen 2fg. I used to own a Euroarms 1853 pattern Enfield. The information I provided so far worked great for that rifle except that I was using a .577 minnie. I appreciate your responses and suggestions. Please keep 'em com in'.
 
Try your .577 Minnie bullets.

They might be a bit harder to load, especially if there is any fouling in the bore but their larger size might make the difference.

You said the bullets you tried tumbled. Did they leave elongated holes in the targets? If so, I agree they are tumbling which indicates they either are traveling too slowly or they didn't grab the rifling.

Your powder charge sounds about right.
 
Yes, when they hit the target at all, they hit sideways. I should have brought some .577s to the range with me on the last trip. I will try that in the near future. That will be the most cost effective fix if it works. Thanks.
 
MinnieBall1 said:
My lead is pure lead dug from the dirt berms at my black powder only club.

You need a more reliable source for good, pure lead, the material dug out of the berm could be anything between pure lead and Linotype metal. Some people use wheel weight metal for round balls, especially in smoothbores, and have fairly good luck using it.
 
Hi, i also have this problem with the 575213AM mould. Have tried these bullets in my 2 band (now sold) and also in my Musketoon. Both rifles are Parker Hale made in England. Iv tried different amounts of powder ranging from 50 to 80 grns and use only pure lead with wonderlube. Both rifles shoot patched ball very well so thats what we are using at the present time.
Best Wishes from England and a Happy Christmas to all. Tim
 
MinnieBall1 said:
Maybe it's not pure lead. Is there a way to tell? Can you melt unpure lead and flux it enough to leave you with only pure lead?


Are you getting hard fouling just ahead of the breech? That can be an indication of a minie not fully expanding, due to hard lead. I had that problem with minies cast from what I thought
was pure lead from lead lined drywall. That's when I bought a tester.
There are several lead hardness testers on the market. Lee, Saeco
and Cabine Tree. I have the Cabine Tree and am very satisfied with it.

Duane
 
MinnieBall1 said:
Maybe it's not pure lead. Is there a way to tell? Can you melt unpure lead and flux it enough to leave you with only pure lead?

To find out if the lead is "pure" enough to use for Minié ball projectiles, try scratching the lead with your thumb nail, if you can easily scratch a curl of metal off that way then the lead is probably soft enough to be close to pure, if not it is too hard.

There is no way for you to reduce alloys by removal of non lead products, fluxing will only blend the various components more evenly. Others will have to describe the amount of heat and methods that may be used by foundries to do what you want but it is impossible in the home shop.

Best to buy pure lead, it is not that hard to find and not as expensive as it once was. Go to a scrap yard and tell them you need soft lead for casting expanding base Minié balls for muzzle loading shooting, make it clear that you can not use a hard alloy. If they have any in stock, they will sell you what you want.
 
MinnieBall1 said:
My lead is pure lead dug from the dirt berms at my black powder only club.

Some of that reclaimed lead may not be pure. Some folks shoot less than pure for round balls. I mold minnie balls in a very un scientific manner. On a gas kitchen range , in a cast iron pot. When it melts, I start pouring. I only use pure lead and not reclaimed. In my 24" BBL Musketoon I use 55 gr 3FFFg and my 1842 Musket-Rifled (.69cal. 700gr minnie ball) I use 100gr 3FFFg. never any tumbling.

Again. an un scientific theory about lead. I notice my pure lead minnie balls begin to darken in color fairly soon after they are cast. I have some not pure lead for my round balls and they are still shiny, after many months.
 
poordevil said:
MinnieBall1 said:
My lead is pure lead dug from the dirt berms at my black powder only club.

Some of that reclaimed lead may not be pure. Some folks shoot less than pure for round balls. I mold minnie balls in a very un scientific manner. On a gas kitchen range , in a cast iron pot. When it melts, I start pouring. I only use pure lead and not reclaimed. In my 24" BBL Musketoon I use 55 gr 3FFFg and my 1842 Musket-Rifled (.69cal. 700gr minnie ball) I use 100gr 3FFFg. never any tumbling.

Again. an un scientific theory about lead. I notice my pure lead minnie balls begin to darken in color fairly soon after they are cast. I have some not pure lead for my round balls and they are still shiny, after many months.

WOW!!! How does your shoulder feel after a few rounds of those 700 gr. minies with that charge in your '42?

Duane
 
The guys are right about using anythng but pure lead. Been shooting a Springfield 1861 for years. I thought I could use wheel weights. Minie balls went all over the place. I was using the same mould that you were. I switched to a 575213OS (old style) with pure lead and 60gr (by volume) of pyrodex RS. What a difference! Also did not just push the minie on top of the charge. I gave it five or so raps with the ram rod once it was down on the powder. Accuracy improved by leaps and bounds. When I just pushed the ball on to the charge accuracy was poor. The old style mould has a bit thicker skirt. Anyway, it worked for me.
 
Mine out shoots many rifles with the 570 PRB.
I get the best accuracy with 65 and 70 grains of real black powder 2F and .018 patches.

Geo. T.
 
.001 -.002 under bore dia. is best to check start over sized minne into barrel leave enough out to get pliers on it. turn it 1/4 turn remove and mike it that is your bore dia. do it to 2 or 3 minnie's to get an average. 3fffg. somewhere between 38 to 48 you will find the sweet spot. lead hardness If you can squeeze it w/ your thumb and index finger it should be soft enough. also a #2 pencil should peel lead. If you can't get it to work after that just send it to me I'll pay the shipping. :rotf:
 
About the same as a 12 with slugs. Remember the musket weighs 10 pounds or better
 
Are you shooting an Armi or original? I've never tried the big Lyman in my original. I use the Rapine semi wadcutter and 70gr of 2F as a hunting load.

Duane
 
I am shooting the Armi. I use 3FFFg in everything. I tried 60 and 70 gr out of it and it seemed to just kind of poof them out. 90 gr started to give them some oomph. 100gr will allow me to scare gallon milk jugs at 200 yards.

I like that gun just fine. It is well made and nice looking. My Parker_Hale Musketoon is the best muzzle loader I have ever owned. Got it new in 1974. It is awesome.
 

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