Black powder revolver holster question...

I recently bought a pietta 1858 revolver with a western style open holster and belt from triple k to go with it. All was purchased from cabelas. Now...my burning questions is that I cannot afford multiple cylinders for this gun and I do not like belt bags because to me they feel cumbersome. I am not using preloaded cartridges so, what I'm asking, did cowboys in that era carry leather possibles bags too?

I want to somewhat look period correct for carrying my gun and items for it. Any ideas? Thanks people, I'm a newbie at this stuff...

Also, on another note...I know brass flasks were used, but does anyone carry a powder horn??

Well, first of all, you're description should tell you a lot. 1858 revolver is more Civil War era, as opposed to Fur Trade, or Rev War. So you have to decide on what you're going to use it for. Powder horns were likely not the norm, as a flask is more convenient for a revolver. Now, that does NOT mean they were not used. I would think a pre-measured spout would make loading much easier.

Our local club only allows items pre-1840, so no revolvers there.

Hope that helps.

Never heard of a cowboy/scout,lawman carrying a possibles bag. In camp they would reload with a flask and used round balls. To reload during a gun fight a couple of packets of combustible ammunition were carried. Each packet was about as large as a deck of cards and contained 6 rounds. It was also common during the percussion era to carry to revolvers.

Early tintypes or studio cards do show an occasional belt bag and I've seen one or two over the years with a carrier for a powder flask. Most seem to have only a belt and holstered revolver, which leaves us basically not knowing. Honestly, outside of specialist pistol fighters, I don't imagine real fast reloads were a big problem for the majority of folks then. As we tell our kids at the state sponsored shoot, "The reason gunfights happened at high noon was it took them all morning to load!" :wink: If you like the look, there's always the option of a military style revolver cartridge box. They're smaller than most belt bags and were designed to hold a box of pre-made revolver paper cartridges...just a thought!

I bought a medium belt bag and I don't find it all that bulky. I intend on getting the larger one as well.

get a horse and keep all that stuff in the saddle bags
:grin:

:thumbsup:

Cynthialee said:

get a horse and keep all that stuff in the saddle bags
:grin:

Click to expand...

:wink: :hatsoff:

What about a civil war belt cartridge box

I remember reading some accounts of how cavalry troops used their side arms in combat.
They did not stop in the middle of a fight by choice, shoot their sidearms dry and then try to reload on horse back in the middle of the fray.
What they did was charge through a body of men emptying their guns into them and if necessary cut their way out with the saber after the guns were shot dry.
They then typically tried to dash out of range on the other side, reload, regroup and charge back through the infantry from flanking movements.
The idea was to break up power bonds and cohesive unit actions of infantry through terror and confusion.
It was not uncommon to find horse solders with 3 or 4 pistols stuck into their sashes, belt flap holsters and saddle pommel holsters. They liked to have several on their person in case their mount was shot out from under them.
The movies rarely show accurate accounts of cavalry tactics.
Custer got a object lesson of how light cavalry tactics should be employed.
The braves simply road over the top of them an fired into their midst while passing through, from several different directions. Mike D.

I would think a cow hand or horse solder would prefer loaded paper cartridges for convience and small carry packages which generally required some kind of box container.
I also think that post civil war hand guns saw more paper cartridge use than did pre war. Mike D.

M.D. said:

I would think a cow hand or horse solder would prefer loaded paper cartridges for convience and small carry packages which generally required some kind of box container.
I also think that post civil war hand guns saw more paper cartridge use than did pre war. Mike D.

Click to expand...

You're absolutely right as far as U.S. cavalry is concerned. The boys down south went a different way. It was common to find cavalry troopers toting 4 to 6 revolvers, Kentucky & Texas units were particularly adept at these tactics. Shoot her dry, shove it in your belt and yank out another, repeat! Texas units were also fond of double percussion shotguns...let'em have a double load of 'blue whistlers' just before contact then drop it over a saddle horn, grab the reins in the teeth and commence hauling out revolvers!! Yee-hah!!

Read Andy Adam's "Log of a Cowboy". He was a working cowboy during the post Civil War era and writes about being on a cattle drive from the Rio Grande to Wyoming. One of the longest drives on record.

In it he frequently mentions going into town to buy cartridges. Never once does he mention anything that would lead one to think that any of his fellow cowboys had anything other than cartridge guns. They also did not carry rifles with them. They emptied 4 or 5 pistols trying to kill one Grizzly Bear.

My thought is that the cowboys had a specialized need for cartridge guns and so were "early adopters". They needed to reload on horseback and they needed weatherproof and waterproof ammunition. Cowboys that were more ranch bound and other folks probably stayed with their cap and ball revolvers longer.

I solved the problem of fast reloading by getting two New Model Remington revolvers and making holsters for both of them. 10 shots are better than 5 shots.

BTW, one chapter is devoted to the burial of a young cowboy whose horse threw him. As a result of getting the saddle horn in his stomach, his pistol went off and killed him. Not every cowboy kept an empty chamber for safety.

Many Klatch

When I shot cap-n-ball in CAS, I had extra cylinders loaded, but uncapped. I kept these apart in sealed plastic containers, and put them in my Army "Colts" on the loading line, then capped them. You aren't going to have extras so...,

I'd think a small leather "box" on your belt to hold the round ball, with the flask next to it in a leather carrier, would be right "smart" looking. Perhaps a cap box as well. Even when loading the cylinders prior to a match, I used a brass flask with a spout that was cut to give me my pet load of 3Fg. I also found one of those straight line cappers useful.

The other thing I found was that no matter what, one of the 6 chambers in each cylinder, didn't shoot as well as the other five. I thought it balderdash when I was told this but it rang true when I tested it. So I used some masking tape and a pen to number each chamber in each of the cylinders, and did a test, and the one cylinder that seemed to "throw" the ball a bit out of the group from a bench..., I pulled the nipple from it and used that as the "loaded and hammer down" position for my revolver. In CAS back then you had to have one empty chamber, so I chose the least accurate chamber.

LD

By the time the western style holster was in vogue the cap and ball revolver was pretty well obsolete, replaced by metallic cartridges. Not to say there weren't holdovers. Average joe walking down the street with his cap and ball in a holster either had pre made paper cartridges or a pocket flask and some balls.

Maybe someone has an answer to this question... there were cap boxes and cartridge boxes. The infantry cartridge box was very large for pre-rolled musket cartridges. For a cavalry man, the cap boxes were rather small, about large enough to hold 2 packets of combustible ammunition but whether the ammunition was carried in a "cap" box or whether there was a small, special cartridge box just for a cavalry man- I'm not certain. I've surfed the net but there is all sorts of images that could simply be wrong.
To the best of my knowledge, for a cowboy, you probably want to consider a slim Jim type holster worn cross draw. The cross draw was easier to pull out the revolver when on a horse. On a bag/flask. etc- never say never but I can't recall seeing many photos where such was worn. Where would a cowboy carry combustible ammunition? Good question. We normally think that pockets are post 1840 but that's not entirely true, there are Capots with pockets, some drop front pantaloons, etc. Maybe a vest had a pocket for combustible ammunition.
And....since this is all about trying to replicate what was, might as well figure out the pc way things were done. That's half the fun.
For example, I made some replica Colt and replica Sage wood boxes complete with gummed labels and pull string/wires just to experience how fast a person could rip open the label, stuff the rounds (clear/unfired revolver in this case) into the cylinder, cap and fire. I compared that to withdrawing fired cases from a 1873 Peacemaker and reloading. The old cap and ball was about equal in time.
I think it was one of the Wilson pictorial books- "gunfighters of the Old West"?- that mentioned the town fathers in Abilene agreed to reimbuse Hickok for ammunition for target practice. I think he was still using the foil type cartridges and shot up about 6,000 rounds. In any event, they were very common.

Isn't that they way Bloody Bill Anderson done it?

Chief Moonthunder said:

Isn't that they way Bloody Bill Anderson done it?

Click to expand...

May have, would have to look it up for sure. One of the best descriptions I've ever read was Blackburn's account of the 8th Texas' charge of an Illinois or Indiana ifn. regiment during the retreat from Shiloh to Corinth. Basically, they took up a position on a hill side and when the PBI wandered by they road out unlimbered shotguns and got the infantry to set up to repel cavalry in two ranks with bayonets outward. Think Forrest intended to do the "walk-canter-gallop" routine but soon as he raised his hand, his Texas guys go, "Yee-hah!" and off they went at a mad gallop! Blackburn says that without command they yanked up at point-blank range and let go two rounds of buckshot each. The description was, "they(meaning the Union soldiers) fluttered on the ground like blue quail"! The Texas boys slug shotguns, bit their reins, yanked out two revolvers each and chased the survivors back to the follow-on regiment who broke up and ran as the survivors broke up their ranks. Unconventional as hell but it worked. Forrest was not pleased with the general behavior but had to salute the results!! :thumbsup: