Shooting Recommendations for Vincent style percussion rifle

I purchased a beautiful, 45 cal, Vincent style percussion muzzleloader from one of our fine forum members. After finishing weeks of traveling for work, I finally have time to shoot it.

The rifle, according to the forum member, was started years ago by a local (N.Y. State) gunsmith by the name of James Tawney. The barrel is a very heavy 15/16 diam 32" long, has 7 lands and grooves.
The lock is marked DGW (don't know what that refers to). I used the patch covered bore brush technique to determine that the twist is about 1:24 or 1:28.

I have searched this site and the net high and low for recommendations of what to shoot in it: patched ball, conical, bullets, bull-ettes, sabots. The answers are various and often contradictory. Some say that even with the fast twist, it should shoot tightly patched ball OK with small powder loads. Others say that patched ball will be all over the place.
Any suggestions and recommendations are greatly welcomed.
Thanks,
Ron

That is quite a fast twist. Arguments aside a "roundball" twist in a 45 would be ideally somewhere around 1:56 with 1:48 still being "not bad".

If you have the twist figured correctly it would have been designed for heavier conical bullets up to 1" long based on your twist.

You could shoot patched round ball but would suggest you start with a very light powder charge, like even down at 30 grains and slowly work up until you really start getting "wild fliers" and shredded patches.

It sounds like this rifle was probably made for someone who wanted the look of a Vincent but wanted to shoot sabots..

(DGW could be Dixie Gun Works ???)

Sorry Ron,

should have given you a couple of links to check out. Not "opinions" but some results based on some testing.

Some general guidelines based on twist Link

Also might want to check out Doc Whites website. He has done a ton of work with fast twist 45 caliber rifles. You have to kinda pick your way around, but lots of good information. Link

Thank you for the comments and the links!
I am going to do the twist test again, just in case I am doing something wrong. I took 4 pulls of the freely rotating cleaning rod and each gave me a 1/2 turn of something over 12".

Ron

That does sound fast - at least your probably close.

Does it have the Vincent style butt plate with the wicked hook at the top.


If so it can be quite punishing on the shoulder with a fast twist, heavier bullet. Vincent's weren't really meant to be shot from the shoulder - crooked into the elbow - but that wouldn't be conducive to a decent shot with a heavier conical.

Anyhow, do have a read on Gary Whites website. It's sometimes a little disjointed but if, in particular, you do some reading on the White Muzzleloading system which was designed to shoot long/heavy conicals, it may at least give you somewhere to start working up a bullet/load that will work for your rifle..

Here are some photos to get a sense of the rifle. The butt curve is not as extreme as a classic Vincent. I sincerely hope that the person who sold it to me doesn't mind my using his photos.



Ron

Beautiful rifle. Ohio's are probably my overall favorite, or maybe Maryland's

And yes, the butt doesn't look as severe.

Hey, if you find it a little much at the range you can always use one of those strap on shoulder thingy's that skeet shooters use.

Do figure out what she like though - that is a sweet looking rifle and should be shot - alot...

You know that looks like the rifle that Byron was selling a couple a months ago if I'm not mistaking anyway I have an inline (planing on selling it) that wouldn't shoot a round ball for nothing and it was 1:28 twist rate. :shake:.Now I have a real round ball gun with about 1:50 twist or so (36 cal) 5 shots,rested, all touching 25 yards. :thumbsup:

I just did the rotating rod test again and I still get 1:24 to 1:28.
I did notice that the photo was taken with round balls. That could be just for the photo or that is what it shoots.
I will find out soon.
Thank you again!
Ron

This is the rifle that Bryon sold. I was told it did well with a round ball but don't have any particulars on just what he used. I would contact him and ask. I know the rifle well aside from shooting it as I was the person that helped him finish it.

That was a style that the original builder seamed to like because I bought am unfinished rifle from Bryon that is in that same style. Mine also has the same fast twist barrel in 45 cal as this one and it shoots round ball OK on my first test at the range. I used 445 ball, 18 pt patch with with olive oil beeswax mix for lube, 50 gr. 3f bp at 25 yds off a bench.



Good luck with the rifle, it is a beautiful.

It is, indeed, the gun that Bryon sold me. The information on what you shoot in your similar rifle is very, very helpful and gives me a place to start.
The rifle is beautiful. I have to stop looking at it and start shooting it.
Weather prediction for the Front Range of Colorado is high winds today and snow with very cold temps for the next few days, so it looks like no outdoor range time for me until at least the weekend.
Thanks,
Ron

sleeperNY:
Do you recall what you used to finish it? I have some Tru-oil and Rennaisance Wax around. Tru-oil may make too much of a shine, but that might be what is best according to Bryon.
Ron

Ron, the finish was put on by Bryon so I don't know what he used. I have been using Tung Oil on the last few I have done and like it. He just may have used TruOil. That was a truly beautiful piece of wood.

Jim

This rifle is designed to be shot off hand and not off the shoulder like a shot gun or modern rifle. You will need to move the rifle out to the ball of the shoulder or upper arm where the crescent butt's shape matches the shape of shoulder ball or upper arm.

This position does not lend itself well for shooting off a bench. If shooting off a bench you will want to shoot in a more upright position so you may need to build up you sandbags higher and/or support the fore stock arm against the table or sandbags with your elbow in a more upright position.

Depth of grooves has as much or more to do with shooting round balls as twist. So it may shoot round balls well with lower chargers and conicals well with higher charges. You'll just have to shoot it and see.

DGW stand for Dixie gunworks sold parts for muzzleloaders and still in business. Memphis , tn.

Thank you! I should have figured that out.

Ron