72 Cal. said:
Hello, I am a newcomer to the sight, but I have enjoyed hunting with traditional black powder rifles for several years and love it more and more every time I go out to shoot them. I do have a question though. I have always wanted to hunt an Alaskan Brown Bear with a flintlock and a round ball. I am looking into a big bore flintlock and need some advice on which caliber would be the best. I have shot a 10 bore jeager rifle with a 670 grain ball and 180 grains of 2f powder and really enjoyed it. In fact my wife shot it 3 times and didn't have a problem with it. I have always liked the big guns and am looking to build one of three calibers, (66, 72, or 10 bore). Could I get your opinion on these three for hunting the Alaskan Brown Bear, moose and other large North American game. Thank you,
Kent Memmott
I have a rifle that shoots a .662 ball at about the same velocity as a 12 slug, 1600 fps with 140 gr of FF Swiss. Forsythe said this was about the smallest anyone would use for dangerous game, he hunted in India in the 1850s-60s with a 69 (14 bore) using powder charges almost identical to what I shoot from my 16 bore.
Bigger is always better, to a point and I would want 1500 fps so the rifle will shoot flat to 100 yards or so. A 10 bore at this velocity is going to be pretty nasty and the larger bores are heavier and not as easy to handle. The problem with the larger bores is velocity and how well they can be shot.
The heavy recoil and barrel time of a large caliber heavily loaded RB rifle can produce fliers from slight differences in how the gun is mounted and held. This is why LR benchrest shooters (1000 yards) use small bore rifles like the 6mm Dasher.
The rifle must be very carefully stocked as an English Sporting rife would have been. Track of The Wolf sells a drawing of an original Purdey percussion rifle and by lengthening the forend for 2 keys its perfect for a late 18th early 19th c FL sporting rifle as well. A Jaeger will work as well but the English design is best.
I see little need for a ball larger than about .735" (600 grains) mostly for the velocity thing. This is a choice you will have to make. Shot placement will be the important part. A properly placed 437 grain ball is better by far than a poorly placed 700 gr ball. I would also shoot a hardened ball, wheel weight alloy.
This will greatly enhance penetration and bone breaking capability. Soft lead balls that encounter heavy bone will deform dramatically. Hardened balls were the standard for large game in Africa and India.
People hunt Africa with RB MLs so I see no reason ML would not work fine for anything in AK. The guy I read about who shot Cape buffalo used 8 bore percussion rifles and had a pair of them made. So if you can arrange a gun bearer a second rifle is an option. Paper cartridges work well with no patch and shoot to point of aim to at least 50 yards. Can drastically cut reload time with a little practice.
If you can find a guide go for it. If the shot is placed well a large bore RB is certainly adequate.
I would recommend Swiss BP. If will give the best velocity for a given charge weight. Huge powder charges are not needed. In the 1930s John Taylor was killing African Elephant (13 good bulls) and Rhino with a 10 bore and 167 gr of powder. This is detailed in his book "Pondoro". His concern was the lack of stopping power/penetration for head shots to stop a charging Elephant. So he did not place himself in that position.
Shoot the rifle a lot and be SURE you can place the shot. Hunting non-dangerous game with it is excellent practice as well since it will show what you can do in the field.
If you can get a set of castings from the Rifle Shoppe for a late Manton FL and have Bob Roller make all the guts for it you will have a good lock. This is not a rifle to "short cut". Rifling twist need be no slower than 72" maybe 80" regardless of what some are hyping for "Forsythe rifling". Narrow lands and a moderate twist will shoot all the powder the bore diameter will use.
My 16 bore rifle has an 80" twist. A friend has a 66 twist 69 caliber and can shoot very heavy charges from it with no problems so don't get sucked in to a 120" twist. What the makers do not realize is that Forsythe was using barrels with a different rifling form than is used today by most makers Nor, SFAIK, did he test twists in the 60-72 inch range.
Nor do you need 2000 fps. You need a good accurate rifle that you cans shoot well with a ball of adequate size for the game. Soft lead simply did not provide the penetration needed on Elephant.
When he ran out of hardened balls for the smooth 10 bore Taylor stopped using it and eventually his ammo arrived for his "moderns".
He did say this in closing the section about using the 10 bore.
"Men with their modern breech-loaders and repeaters are all too much inclined to sneer at the muzzle-loader. But a good muzzle-loader, properly handled, is a very deadly and effective weapon---provided its limitations are fully realized."
If a hunter hunts Brown Bear or any other dangerous or even non-dangerous game and blows the shot there will be problems. Don't matter what the muzzle energy is or how fast it can be shot.
In the 1960s a Hollywood stunt man Killed an African Rhino with a 58 flintlock loaded with 2 balls and a heavy charge of powder. It was written up in Muzzle Blasts. I have the issue somewhere but have not time to look for it.
Dan
ff
