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A Yeager in need of some love.....

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KABAR2

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A friend had this and it was headed for the auction block... So I had to rescue it....

This is a rather nice little rifle, although during it's working life the stock had suffered major damage to the comb and from the middle of the wrist to about 2 inches from the front of the buttplate was completely replaced... who ever did the work at the time did a fine job but age has taken it't toll on the glue used on the crack through the wrist I will have to stabelize and restore the wood on this gun.... the other aspect is to decide on weather to return it to flint... the percussion conversion was not done by the same class of craftsman who had originally built it... when they plugged the holes from the frizzen and spring they took down the engraving under where the pan used to reside......

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there had been a horn tip to the end of the stock ... now missing...

I would date this gun from the later half of the 18 century... the lock has a nice banana shape, the brass furniture is well made and heavy if it was not for the engraved lock I would have thought this had seen possible military use.... there are signs of a sling swivel near the front ramrod pipe and there are signs of a sling swivel had been screwed into the butt at one time..... over all length is 36" barrel length with tang is 22.25" double set triggers still work.. when set a very "lite" touch sets them off.....
 
Nice rescue!!! I think I would leave the lock alone. It's part of the rifle's history.
 
Most definitely, leave the lock alone. Also, do as little as possible to the rest of the gun, altogether it is very good condition for a gun made between 1780 and 1820. Kabar2, no offense to you, I don't know you or your skill level so take this for what it is worth; any noticeable work done by someone with less than excellent skills would drop the value dramatically.
 
I have to agree. Leave well enough alone....especially the lock. Anything you do will be erasing history and decrease value. I would seek expert advice on this rifle. While we can rarely be "sure", sometimes historical significance can be determined when examined by someone "in the know".

What is often done today in these cases is one would build or have built a "reproduction" of what this rifle is believed to look like during it's servicable life. Then, if you are not happy owning the original in it's current condition you can sell it to someone who would appreciate it for what it is and likely make enough to pay for your new gun.

Great save!!! Enjoy, J.D.
 
If a piece like that could talk, "oh what stories it might tell"!

I must confess I know little about an actual Yeager! So this question pops into my mind as I look at it!

Would that have been normal barrel length or has the barrel been shortened?
 
I would say it is possible that it was longer... perhaps one more ramrod pipe longer... the reason I say this is there is no swamp at the muzzel but not every barrel made had a swamp so it is a guess at best....
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As to restoration work I have been working on flints since the 70's I also have a assoiate degree in gunsmithing... I have made a study of 18th C firearms over the years and any work done would compliment not detract from the arm in question...
for now though my main concern is stabelizing the wrist before more damage can occure
 
I plan on posting photo's as work progresses... I may also pull some silicone molds off the furniture while I am at it.....
 
:bow: I wouldn't do anything beyond stablizing the wood, where needed. I would leave the lock as is, esp. if it is functional. Knowing some of your skills, I would think casting up, and dressing a proper nose cap, would be the only thing I would do. I suspect the barrel has been shortened. This was most probably a "gentleman hunter's" gun, not military, your dating is correct, I'd look for German proof marks, IF the barrel can be dismounted, carefully. Nice piece as is.

The Caveman
 
The wrist is cracked through the lock plate area going forward... the wood in front of the lock is cracked there is an old repair= very old glue that has let loose I plan on cleaning out old glue and using an epoxy to reglue the cracked area when done correctly it perserves the item from further damage....I seriously doubt due to the extent of the crack it could be repaired and blended in as to not to show... I may also add a screw from under the trigger bar up into the wrist to further pull things together... the only other restoration work I will probably do is replace the missing horn or bone forend cap.. I suspect it was horn and that moth larve had their way with it... what was left was removed before I purched it.. some of the old glue remains on the wood...I will leave it in percussion...
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That being said since I plan on pulling molds from it in the furniture I see a great grandson to this rifle in flint....
 
Not to offend you, but I hope you did not spend a lot of money on this gun during the auction. I estimate the value of this gun at about $250-300 max, if even that. Converted guns like that are for sale in Europe on the auction sites there all the time and are not going for much. I bought one in much better shape for $200.
If you ever do something to the gun, never use epoxy or other modern glues. I would restock the rifle and have the barrel checked out. If barrel is fine, then proof fire it ,then shoot it. Most likely northern to middle german origin, because of form of stock and trigger guard. This is an ordinary rifle, because of the brass furniture.
 
using an epoxy to reglue
Using anything but wood glues on the wood just goes against my grain. Good glues are very strong.
My inclination would be to reconvert to flint. I understand the argument of possibly lowering values but what kind of "values" are we talking about. The original story or dollars? Your call, I would do flint.
It has some age factors but, in my eyes, a beautiful rifle.
 
tecum-tha said:
Not to offend you, but I hope you did not spend a lot of money on this gun during the auction. I estimate the value of this gun at about $250-300 max, if even that. Converted guns like that are for sale in Europe on the auction sites there all the time and are not going for much. I bought one in much better shape for $200.
If you ever do something to the gun, never use epoxy or other modern glues. I would restock the rifle and have the barrel checked out. If barrel is fine, then proof fire it ,then shoot it. Most likely northern to middle german origin, because of form of stock and trigger guard. This is an ordinary rifle, because of the brass furniture.

I would be interested in seeing your gun to compare. The above gun to me is worth more in its present condition than you stated just for some of its interesting features.
 
I really don't think it is necessary to raise the question of price when it hasn't been requested. A good price is whatever leaves both parties mutually satisfied and I would certainly pay far more than you quoted for the gun in question. Maybe I have to spend some more time looking at auction sites, I could certainly use one of those. It would be a great study piece.
 
I was writing that comment, because I have the impression the thread starter is of the impression to have a very special and expensive piece of history there.
I think it is pretty interesting, that in the US a lot of guns which basically go for next to nothing in Europe (and not because they are illegal or anything) people pay comparably very high prices and think they own something super special.
You can see prices and photos of guns in several different states with grading at Hermann Historica (english site available), which is a big auction house in Munich or at www.egun.de (autotranslated site is not good), then "startseite", then left the "vorderlader" link and then "historische originale".
Hermann Historica has great photos with a zoom, so you can see some phantastic guns there. I would not buy anything worse than a grade II+ to II-.
Most of those guns can be easily repaired and put back to use. This gun is more in a grade III- to IV+. Barrel still looks good as does the lock.
As an example, see this piece: http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4318022

This is in a state II+, only some interior problems with the lock (I guess the main spring is broken or weak, which is an easy fix). Still is original flintlock and the stock and barrel are in very good to excellent shape. Even has the original folding diopter on top of the wrist area. This is offered by an antique weapon dealer. The "Buy it now" price is about $1400, auction start about $1150. The only problem right now is, that the german postal service does not send any weapons or weapon parts internationally anymore. I have to pick up my fowling piece when I fly over to see my family.
 
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I find it odd after telling one and all how common my little yeager is and how it is of low value I find you had a used up yeager -a parts gun restored.... how is it it was worth the expense having a gunsmith recreat all that was missing?
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/230515/post/678307/hl//fromsearch/1/
http://home.custertel.net/~tbrown/index2.html click gallery go to rifles click yeager

I have looked at the German auction site and most yeagers there are going for well above 250 dollars..... I am at a loss as to why you broched the subject of price when it was never asked for as it is not for sale... my post is a way of sharing a nice find with people who apreciate fine old guns.... If I came across that I had found something special well yes in my opinion I have, something worth saving... with a lot more than your rifle started out as.... So I am wondering what the point was?
 
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Yes, but the grade of those pieces is considerable higher. The private auction prices are in this area (e-gun which is like gunbroker).
Even in the professional antique market over here, the prices are inflated:
as an example:
Example

The Kuchenreuther brand is well known and still in existence today.

A similar piece in original flint state and in the same condition was sold for about $1700 about 2 month ago on e-gun.de

I had this yeager restored, because I wanted to use it for hunting and I needed a fitting gun anyways.I use it as my main deer rifle and at shoots. The biggest reason is, that it is an early austrian gun which did come over here before 1800.In Austria, this kind of gun would have been converted to percussion if it stayed over there or would have been used in parts to build a parts percussion gun. The liner was also shot out and this showed the gun was used extensively. The barrel is also signed in silver and the maker is known by the guild books.
This enhances the value considerably.
Certain antique gunmakers sell very high,even if the piece is in comparably bad shape.
Guns without a makers mark are commonly not very valueable in antique trading.
As an example: The converted fowling gun I was buying was featering a number 2 on the tang. A sure sign that it was part of a hunting set or a pair. Itr also featured all features of a finer german flintlock fowling piece. Usually only nobility was rich enough to order pairs or hunting sets. The guns were usually of above average quality,too.
Would I have a parts gun restored again?
Probably not, I buy only originals in the II+ state anymore which only need very minor work done. I still use these guns and don't let them be safe queens.
 
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