Tung Oil Help!!

Hi Everyone,
I have an Allentown Flinter built by a guy in N.Y. It has 15 coats of tung oil and it's gorgeous. So I'm trying various stains and testing finishes. I put some LMF Maple on a piece of pine after it was sanded smooth. Color is great.
So I bought some "Minwax Tung Oil Finish" and started applying it. Apply a good coat and wait the 5 to 10 minutes as suggested. Then rub it off. So far 7 coats and it's dull as dull can be. I've waited 24 to 48 hours between coats. Doesn't appear any better then the second coat.
I know it has solvents and has to soak into the wood but this is getting ridiculous.
Has anyone else had this problem with Minwax or have I not gone far enough?
Looked up Minwax Tung Oil on the web and not to many kind words have been said about it. Any suggestions??
Mike C.
Groveland, CA

Unless the stock you are going to finish is pine you need another test piece. Its probably soaking like a sponge and you have not got the surface sealed yet. Try using a piece of the stock you sawed off of your blank. I hear the Minwax antique oil finish is quite fair.

Not sure, but with "Tung Oil", don't you rub on very light, let dry, then recoat?

Flint311,
The directions say to put on then wipe off after 5 to 10 minutes. Others on the web say if you leave it on to long it gets tacky and won't rub clean. Maybe it's just the brand and not tung oil in general.
Wish I knew.
Mike C.

Min-Wax Tung Oil "Finish" and tung oil are two different things.The Min-Wax product is a wiping varnish,pure tung oil has no varnish in it.

Mikey, the post next to yours about the 5 Hawkens I built, the bottom one with the Green River Rifle Works barrel has 10 coats of Formby's Tung Oil Finish, High Gloss, on it. They also make a Satin finish. My finish was too shiny so I went over it with 4/0 steel wool to dull the shine. The instructions on this can say to apply the finish and let dry 12 hours. Some I put on and let dry, and some I put on and wipe dry with a paper towel for a thin coat. You can always put on a wet coat, let it fully dry, maybe even overnight, then cut back with steel wool. When the pores are filled, you can put on thin coats. I like tung oil as a finish.

I start with Formbys satin Tung oil and cut it with mineral spirits. I start out about 50/50. Do a couple of coats and then increase the oil and decrease the spirits. Eventually doing a couple of coats at 100% oil.

First off I'd like to thank everyone that responded. In this process I've learned a lot. I'll answer your responses then I'll paste in an article I found on the net.
Capt; I choose pine only to get a feel for the finish. After the first two coats it doesn't soak in anymore. I have four slabs of curly maple I'll use. Been using Permalyn but wanted to try Tung Oil.
Scots Jim; You're right on, Min-Wax is a wiping varnish. See attached article.
Herb; You did a great job on your stock. Thanks for the tip on Formbys. It's in a different class then Min-Wax and appears more durable.
John; Good idea. I've done this before with other finishes.
I'm going to try the Formbys and see if their application method and chemical makeup gives me the depth I'm after. For those interested here is the article I found:

"Tung Oil Finish" is a marketing expression for products that the manufacturer thinks will give you a finish like the finish you get from a true tung oil. These "Tung Oil Finishes" may or may not contain some true tung oil, but most do not contain any true tung oil. Their only claim to the use of the word "tung" is that it claims to give you the appearence of finish that results from tung oil. You're buying a "faux tung oil finish".

There are two types of "tung oil finishes". One is mixture of varnish, boiled linseed oil and mineral spirits (called an oil/varnish). The exact mixtures are proprietary but 1/3, 1/3, and 1/3 will get you real close. Some manufacturers add a dollop of drier to speed up the drying. This same mixture is frequently also called "Danish Oil" because it gives a finish that resembles the finish used on much of the "danish style" teak furniture imported in the 50's and 60's. It closely mimics a true oil finish but the addition of the varnish resins gives it more durability and protection.

Here are some oil/varnish mixtures*)
Deft Danish Oil
General Finishes' Sealacell
Behlen Danish Oil
Maloof Finish
Behr Scandinavian Tung Oil Finish
Minwax Tung Oil Finish
Minwax Antique Oil Finish
Velvit Oil
Watco Danish Oil
McCloskey Tung Oil Finish (contains pure tung oil, not linseed oil)

The second "tung oil finish" is one made from varnish and mineral spirits. The approximate ratio is 1:1. This is really just a thinned varnish just like the stuff sold as "wiping varnish". When one two or three coats are applied, it also mimics the finish produced by a true oil but it is harder than the oil/varnish above because it does not have as much oil. It is slightly more protective than the oil/varnish type or tung oil finish. For all intents and purposes it is a varnish finish.

Here are some thinned varnishes*)
Minway Wiping Varnish
Watco Wiping Varnish
Formby's Tung Oil Finish
Zar Wipe-on Tung Oil
Val-Oil
Hope's Tung Oil Varnish
Gillespie Tung Oil
Waterlox
General Finishes' Arm R Seal
Jasco Tung Oil

One way to tell whether the product is an oil/varnish or a wiping varnish is to read the application instuctions. Oil/varnishes are applied, then given some time to set, then wiped dry. Wiping varnish products are wiped on an left to dry (no wiping off).

For either of the above, you can mix your own using your own proportions, can it and sell it as "My Greatest Tung Oil Finish". Then announce a new product with slightly different proportion and call it "My Greatest Danish Oil Finish". We're not talking rocket science here.

Finally, I'm not saying that any of these products are not good. In fact, they are a more protective and durable finish than any pure oil finish. They are what they are and can give you a good finish when properly applied.

(*) Thanks to Bob Flexner "Understanding Wood Finishes"

I use the Minwax Antique Oil on my wood knife grips, but on a gun stock it sets to fast for me. It is one of those wipe on, wait a few minutes and wipe off. I guess on a gunstock, one would have to do it in sections with some overlap. It is very good stuff though. Works great on knife grips. Holds up very well.

As disclosed by the mfg, the Minwax tung oil finish product is contains >/= 65% mineral spirits, Solvent naphtha, petroleum, medium aliphatic; /= 71%.

Give Linseed oil a try,used in the old days takes about a month to get on and you can keep apling coats for the rest of your life :hmm:

Don't believe the hype surrounding linseed oil as the linseed oil you get today is not the linseed oil used by early gunsmiths....it's not even the stuff used early in the last century by U.S. armories.

Due to lead restrictions you can't buy the good stuff and have to "cook" up your own, adding driers. The recipes are out there if you look. But then you have to know by what means the flax oil you getting was processed by. First press, cold press, boiled, etc....not all linseed oils are equal.

Common sense will tell you that anybody in the business of building guns for a living wouldn't use a product that required weeks to dry. They wanted to move the guns out as quickly as possible. Springfield wouldn't have been able to put guns in service as fast as they did, or would have requires a lot of space for thier drying stocks, had they used what you could only buy today. :shake:

Enjoy, J.D.

Wick Ellerbe said:

I use the Minwax Antique Oil on my wood knife grips, but on a gun stock it sets to fast for me. It is one of those wipe on, wait a few minutes and wipe off. I guess on a gunstock, one would have to do it in sections with some overlap. It is very good stuff though. Works great on knife grips. Holds up very well.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the information Wick. I had heard it was being tried by a few of the guys for guns but I have not. I prefer Tried and True ATM.

Hi Mike,
I've used a tung oil mix on my guns for many years. I've also used tung oil derived varnishes like Formby's and Minwax for some projects with success but I prefer the following:

1. Seal the stock with a mix of 25% polyurethane varnish, 25% tung oil, and 50% turps. I use either polymerized or unpolymerized tung oil from Lee Valley or Sunderland Welles. The polymerized oil dries faster. I soak the stock with the mix, let dry, and then repeat until finish begins to pool on the surface. I wipe off any excess finish. This mix will penetrate deeply and bring out very warm tones in the wood. It also provides excellent resistance to moisture.

2. After sealing the stock and letting it dry and cure for about a week, I apply the final finish, which depends entirely on my objectives. If I want a low gloss oil-like finish, I will hand rub artist-grade raw linseed oil to which a tiny drop of japan drier is added, or I will use raw or polymerized tung oil. After 2-3 coats the low gloss is achieved. If I want a glossier rubbed finish more like a varnish, I used polymerized or raw tung oil mixed with a little (10-15%) polyurethane and paint it on to build up the finish. It may take 3-4 coats, which then must dry and cure for at least a week before rubbing back. I then rub it back with pumice and rottenstone to the desired satin or glossy sheen. I do not claim the finish is better than any other. Indeed, I suspect permalyn is very, very good. However, it works well for me and the guns look the way I desire them to appear and they hold up to the weather. Below are some photos of guns I built using this method. They show a range of finish appearances from low gloss to higher gloss:

I have used the Minwax finish you describe on several guns, but altered the application. Rub it on by hand just like you would a linseed finish. After three or four coats it is done. After that use a wipe of linseed whenever you clean. Wipe on a coat then rub briskly with a paper towel to remove any excess. Soon your stock will have a well used and well care for appearance.

I did not know that linseed oil changed s much.My can of linseed oil belonged to my grand father who died in 1959, its better then 60 years old I still have more then a pint left.It dose still take a month to put on. It is as water resistent as mondren varnish.It aint perfect,but we gave up perfect when we started taking smoke and flint sparks in our face and turning our hands black powder soot. :idunno:

Dave & Pete,
Thanks for the info.
Well guess what happened--I was getting so discouraged with the Min_wax, I let it sit for three days. Then I applied coat #8. Lo and behold, it actually took very well, the luster started appearing. So was this because it was the eighth coat or was it the 3 day drying period. My hunch is it's the 3 days instead of the 24 hours as they recommend. I did notice that this coat sat more on "top" rather then "melting" into previous coats as had been happening.
I'll keep you posted on my progress.
Mike C.