engraving with a electric tool

i was wondering if anyone has found a good electric tool for engraving wood and metal, i am not looking for like 500 dollar equipment, just little engraving on wood and some on metal. i have seen reviews on dremels and its either people love them or really really hate them.

Engraving on what? No tool made by Dremel is appropriate for engraving on a longrifle....and no power tool should come near a gun unless wielded by an experienced hand.

Now, if you just want to screw around with a CVA, Thompson Center, Lyman or any other production gun...where stocks by the dozen are listed on any of a number auction sites....GO FOR IT!

If you're serious about engraving and carving please buy or borrow some good books on the subject and do some research. You too will soon arrive at the same conclusion. You can not replicate good gun engraving or carving with a rotoray tool.

Enjoy, J.D.

If you have ever seen what an inexperianced person can do when attempting any kind of decorative marking on a gun or horn with a Dremel,
You'll understand completely JD's advice.

Metal shaping, and some polishing with practice can be done with a Dremel, but,,,

Boy I whole heatedly disagree with you two on this one. At Hallmark Cards in Kansas City where I worked for 40 years in the Tooling and Engraving areas most of the 40 engravers used air powered tools that resemble a Dremel.
Plus we hired some of the best engravers in the world to come in on special projects. Most of them came from Germany and Japan.
Never say never! :nono:

i wasn't planing on compacted designs, like i am talking about my name and that's about it. and yea it was going to be on a 60 dollar barrel.

I would really like to see some examples of engraving done by a power, rotary tool. I can't imagine how the fine shading, variable line thickness, etc. that was applied to the longrifle by Kunz, Shuler, etc. could be duplicated. I think there's a real difference between the "engraving" that's added to trophies today and the work done by the 18th century gunmakers.

Ernie, are the air powered tools you describe rotary or reciprocating?

ebiggs said:

Boy I whole heatedly disagree with you two on this one.

Click to expand...

Really? Please reread my post. I stand by it. No tool made by Dremel is apporpiate for longrifle engraving.....or longrifle carving for that matter.

There are powered engraving tool marketed by other companies that do incredible work in a practiced hand....but they don't meet the OP's cost requirements....and some will argue that they are not good for replicating "period" work.

Rotary and vibrating tools just won't do for and have no place in decorative work. As I indicated, one can do what one wants on "modern" mass production guns, but as far as I'm concerned the question was asked and answered as it pretains to this board.

Enjoy, J.D

I love Dremel tools for a lot of uses, but NOT for engraving of any kind. I'm not a gunmaker, but I've used Dremel tools a lot for other projects. Its almost impossible to do anything approaching acceptable engraving with one.

Dremel tools and chisels have completely different uses.

Mr. Fenton,

Do some internet searches. You will find that you can buy a simple square graver for less than the cost of a Dremel engraving bit. Many do their work with nothing more than simple gravers fashioned from old files.

Any light hammer, or wrench for that matter, will drive it with satisfaction. With some practice you will likely be able to put your name on a barrel as well as many period longrifle builders.

Stay away from the hand push stuff and stick to chasing. And look for high speed steel gravers if you don't have a means of sharpening colbalt, i.e. diamond stones.

Here's a link where you will find HSS square graver blanks, 5 for $30...and this is just one example:
http://www.airgraver.com/Hand_Engraving_Tools_Overview.htm#LINDSAY GRAVER BLANKS

Good luck and Enjoy, J.D.

JD, you are completely correct.

Something that ebiggs is forgetting is that the engraving that he is talking about is done by very well trained, experienced people - the fellow doing it has been working, in most cases, for years. That person didn't just walk in off the street yesterday and start doing what ebiggs would find even close to acceptable.

And the tools that they are trained on and use day in and day out are ultra expensive. Far beyond what fenton8232 wants to spend for putting his name on the barrel.

fenton8232, follow JD's advice and you will do okay.

The only place I find a dremel tool useful is in inletting lock internals. It's in the "nice to have" rather than "have to have" catagory.

This fellow:
http://www.smittys-engraving.us/
comes to shoots in Arkansas twice a year. Smitty does incredible work at a very reasonable price. He uses one of the special electric tools. He has done a couple small projects for me.

Foredom makes an attachment for there flex shaft rotary tools that work for engraving. Ngraver also makes an attachment for flex shaft rotary tools that work on the same principle and are easy to get started with. They are not cheap but are a lot less costly than most air powered engravers and do a nice job. I agree with what others have said though a couple hand gravers and small hammer for chasing is the best way to start. It doesnt cost a lot and you can learn the fundamentals and go from there. Practice is the key.

Allen

The following work was done by a rank amatuer with a simple modified Dollar store tack hammer, and a small assortment of gravers, some of which are home made. The simple square graver with the long maple grip was the one most often used, and driven with the light weight hammer. The push gravers were used only for some detailing and refinement.

Wick Ellerbe said:

The following work was done by a rank amatuer.......

Click to expand...

Sorry Wick, but I would argue that the "rank amaturer" who did this work is quite gifted...... :wink:

That work is the result of talent, persistance and practice, practice, practice......Enjoy, J.D.

Ive seen it before Wick, and still enjoy seeing it!! Nice!!!! :hatsoff: :thumbsup:
Robby

JD, you would be surprised at the little amount of time spent on cutting practice, however many hours spent on getting the designs worked out on paper, then on the metal. Plus, I go very slowly when cutting. Much like a snail on valium. Or so it seems sometimes.

I admit in the context of the OP you are correct and I stand apologetic. :bow:
But the work that can be done with tools that are very similar to a Dremel is nothing short of amazing. I wish I had kept some of the engraving plates that have all since been discarded as Hallmark does no hand engraving any longer.
Some of these people were the best engravers in the world.
Whether these folks would engrave plates for Hallmark or flintlock guns would not make any difference. :thumbsup:

jdkerstetter said:

ebiggs said:

Boy I whole heatedly disagree with you two on this one.

Click to expand...

Really? Please reread my post. I stand by it. No tool made by Dremel is apporpiate for longrifle engraving.....or longrifle carving for that matter.
Enjoy, J.D

Click to expand...

Why not? Now JD I respect that you have an opinion but isn't that what that statement is? Assuming that your a traditionalist when it comes to muzzleloadersm then I can understand where you're coming from, since these are "modern" tools, but where do you draw the line? Let's face it the majority of the top pro builders today use machine tools at least in part (yes there are some exceptions such as Kettenburg and the Williamsburg shop) so why should one not use a good air engraver for engraving (I do agree that a Dremel is not designed for engraving, but that's a different critter than the air gravers).

For instance Tim Adlam does the very good period engraving for Fred Lehto and as far as I know he uses an air engraver as does Chuck Stark aka Capt Chee and IIRC Jerry uses one too). And a Dremel for rough carving (but not for finish carving)? - I've known a few artisans who do the latter that do great work.

As for the OP - yep a Dremel just won't do it and as noted an air engraver is way too expensive for most folks unless you're going pro.

I would really like to see some examples of engraving done by a power, rotary tool. I can't imagine how the fine shading, variable line thickness, etc. that was applied to the longrifle by Kunz, Shuler, etc. could be duplicated. I think there's a real difference between the "engraving" that's added to trophies today and the work done by the 18th century gunmakers.

Click to expand...

By using different gravers just like you do in hand engraving and these are NOT rotary tools - they work in the same basic way as a hammer and hand held graver do. Most of todays finest gun engravers (including all the custom shops such as Remington, Colt, Benelli, etc.) use air engravers such as GRS, AirGraver, and Gesswein( and yes many use the along with hand tools). The quality and the fineness of the work is comparable to any hand only powered tool engraving.
Here's some examples of very fine engraving using the Airgraver tool (which was originally designed for engraving bank notes)
http://lindsayengraving.com/Steve Lindsay.htm

on guns http://lindsayengraving.com/Gun Engravings.htm

and that's just the tip of the proverbial ice berg....

I'm confused Chuck. I thought I was pretty clear....twice. No carving and engraving with a Dremel tool....period. That's the only line I drew. I consider it a fact and not an opinion until somebody shows me period longrifle style engraving and carving done with a rotary tool.

If he'd asked my opinion on an air-graver he likely would have gotten a different answer.
The OP asked about "Dremel" tools. He doesn't want to cough up a bunch of cash so an air-graver or any other recip engraving tool is out of the question. I offered advice, that's it.

I didn't say anything about not using power tools for shaping, roughing, inletting or anything of the sort. I have no problem with anyone using power tools. This post is about whether a certain type of tool is appropriate for a certain task. If he'd of asked me what I thought about using a bandsaw to inlet his breech tang he'd likely gotten a simular answer.

Oh, and for what's it's worth, guys who use the system you posted links to will tell ya.....it's too good. So good in fact that it is difficult to impossible to do "period" longrifle work. They recommend that you stick to the hammer and chisels when trying to replicate the originals.

Enjoy, J.D.