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Browning a steel patchbox

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tonysmitty

32 Cal.
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I decided I was going to build my own gun in steel. When researching it says once a patch box has been inletted to not remove it from several sources, others say to remove it to stain under it. If I were going to inlet a steel patchbox on a early lancaster in steel I would have to remove it to brown it correct, then reinstall it after staining the stock. But some say not to remove it once its fitted correctly. Can anyone provide insight on what to do in order to inlet a steel patchbox on my gun and still be able to brown it, can it be done on the gun without ruining the stock or does it have to come off. I want a dark brown chocolate type brown job on the gun as well. Ohh the patchbox is about 8 inchs long the Issac Haines design. Please help me
 
When fitting it did you remove and replace? Probably seemed like a million times right? If it is fit properly I can't imagine removing and replacing one more time to be a problem. I would not want browning solution on my freshly prepped stock. Just be careful not to chip the inlet or change the change the shape of the patchbox while it is out of the rifle. Just my thoughts.
 
You do not want to brown it on the stock as the carding will stain the wood. I agree removing it one more time to brown it shouldn't hurt. Don't worry about staining under it as you will find that originals don't have their patch box cavities stained. One caveat to that is if you planning to stain with AF....I don't know that you want to do that with a steel patchbox in. I would, however, reinstall prior to applying the finial finish.

My question is, why a steel Lancaster? Enjoy, J.D.
 
Just this morning I finished a rifle with iron furniture. Yes I did remove the patchbox after fitting. As a matter of fact I removed every piece of iron furniture (except for the patchbox lid spring) prior to applying Aqua fortis. I even removed the forestock estucions (sp?) which I had glued on temporarily. I heat blued all of the iron, stained and oiled the stock and replaced the furniture, replacing all of the work screws with new screws and, permanently pinning the estuscions.
Some of the pieces were a little tight due to swelling of the wood after the Aqua fortis. These pieces needed a little coaxing but, all in all, everything went back on rather nicely.
 
I can kinda see why someone might say "do not remove" if they were speaking of a finished stock that had the metal parts inlayed while the stock was unfinished.

Most people (at least those with any sense) do all of their inlaying before any stock finish is applied.
They install and remove the inlayed parts without problems and probably do it 5-10 times before everything is like it should be.

That is all well and good but remember, the stock is unfinished at this time.

During the stock finishing process oils of some kind are applied to the wood and these oils sink into the fiber.
When they do, the wood fibers expand making things like barrel channels, the lock plate mortice, barrel tangs, trigger guard inlets, patch box and general inlays all fit tighter. In some cases, much tighter.

If the oil(s) were applied to the wood without removing the metal parts I can see where this might make it very difficult to remove them later on.

When I apply the finishing coats of oil I always remove things like patch boxes, side plates, butt plates, trigger guards, locks etc before I start.

This has always made it necessary to go back into the pockets and scrape the edges back down to their former size before I can re-install the parts.
(I leave the small decorative inlays that will never be removed in place during the oiling because it is just one more thing that does a good job of holding them in place.)

Anyway, if the patch box was installed when the wood was raw and the wood is still raw, there is no reason to leave it in place when it is being blued or browned.
 
you can always go back and make a few more wood shavings of a sliver or two here and there. there are probably a few gaps here and there you'd like to see closed up anyway.
 
Sonic, I see ya didn't take my advice. The Isaac Haines patchbox isn't an easy inlet for your first gun build ever. You really need to foucs on building good lines on the gun, and learn the basics before you try to inlet the patchbox you want. Just saying buddy. But since you ordered it already build the gun first and when its together in the white and if you feel comfortable doing it by all means, if not don't add it I know you got all the crazy ideas of this patchbox and doing all kinds of crazy designs on the stock. Trust me and I am sure people in here will agree building a good looking gun isn't high school shop class. Start and learn the basics then progress from there. I will be there for ya if ya got questions but you need to be willing to listen. If not it will come out like your custom made fishing rod you attempted with everything crooked and nothing lines up.
 
I wonder if putting it in a walk in freezer or if you live in a cold climate, leave it out side for an hour or two before removing the metal would help? I know it often helps when glass bedding to release tight fitting stocks from metal.MD
 
I stain & finish my stocks with the furniture Off. (with exception to Nosecap stays on & also inlays stay in) And at times you have to take an exacto knife or small blade or some tip to scrape a edge to get it back in, but the finish on the stock tightens up the small inletting gaps & etc.

Long ago I tried browning one & taping it off as not to scrape the browning. I ended up with finish buidup at all the tape when I took it off & had to start over. From then on I took the furniture off to finish the wood. In fact, I brown the furniture at the same time I am finishing the rifle. This way they are both done at the same time & I can assemble it.

Now I do ALL the prep work with furniture ON, as if not you end up with a bunch of rounded edges on the wood. So leave the patchbox, toeplate, buttplate on when ya sand. If the sideplate is inlet flush to wood, leave it on as well. If it is not flush you sand with a flat wood backing block over the sideplate inlet as not to round the edges there or on the sideplate/lock panels.

The nosecap I do last. I finish & wax the stock, then I tape the edge of the nosecap metal/wood joint with electrical tape, then wrap the forestock with shrinkwrap & then brown the nosecap.

Keith Lisle
 
For the 1st, longer soak in/wipe off coat of LMF sealer, all the components are off the gun as they were when staining w/ the exception of the MCap and permanent inlays. After a complete dry, the Bplate, Pbox and toeplate are installed and 2 addt'l soak in/wipe off coats of LMF sealer are applied w/ a complete dry between coats and a rub down w/ steel wool to remove any surface sealer. Then 2-3 very thin coats of Wahkon Bay Trucoat are applied w/ the finger w/ a complete dry between coats. The inlets for the TG and plate, lock, sideplate, RR pipes bbl and tang are constantly
"toothbrushed" to avoid finish buildup, but still have to be scraped to install the components.

The Pbox is removed for cleanup and final installation including the release components. The reason for leaving the Pbox in while the addt'l coats of finish are applied is that it's a lot of work scraping finish off the complicated inlet perimeter.

The above finish eliminates having to dull a shiney finish....Fred
 
On your original question: remove the iron/steel part to brown the iron/steel part. Stain the wood with the hardware removed. On applying the oil it is your call. Some folks dress up browned metal by applying linseed oil- the same stuff they will use on the stock. If that is your intent, then I'd install the browned metal parts. If you put a lot of coats on the stock with the metal parts off, it is conceivable the oil will run over the edges of the inlet areas and putting the hardware back on will be a little difficult. I've done it both ways and generally it is okay to leave the hardware off- you can put it back on without much trouble, but, as I said, if you are going to oil the browned metal anyway- I don't see much harm with stain the wood, put on the browned metal parts, then oil.
 
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