T/C Hawken Concept

In the early seventies if I were to recreate the Hawken rifle, why would I make it look incredibly like the Frederick Thiede rifle circa 1865? Zonie closed the post of some really great information. Not trying to overide a moderator in no means. Just curious as to why? If I were trying to recreate a "Hawken" on a production basis, it seems I would study "Hawken rifles". I think my rifle would closely resemble the Lyman Great Plains Rifle in the end. I know some of the forum members know the masterminds behind the T/C Hawken. Maybe they thought their concept would be more catchy! Why did they choose this Illinois style rifle and then call it a Hawken?

I think T/C firearms were based more on production techniques and parameters than historical accuracy.

Why does Pietta make a ".44 Navy"? Because someone will buy it.

you guys are making me feel bad...
I own both of those guns and they are my favorites.
:blah:

because it looked like what the italians and spaniards were making? :idunno:

There's a department called marketing or advertising, and the people who work there have no attachment to reality. The pick cool names and take nice pictures with the goal of selling as many of any item as possible.

Why name a car Satellite, Impala, or El Camino? The answer: why not?

Someone suggested Hawken and a lot of people at a big table liked it, then it got rollmarked on barrels. No one was out to make a replica of the gun that was originally associated with that name, they just wanted to sell the gun they made.

Don't feel bad Cyndi. I love my T/C Hawken. Will never get rid of it as long as I live. Just wanted to know why they picked that pattern after a lesser known specimen than ones that were readily available at museums to study. I meant original Hawkens! I guess it's kinda like getting Italians to dress up like Native Americans for a movie huh?

You are assuming they picked the name first and than designed the gun. I will interject that they may have designed the gun and later came up with a name that they thought people would be familiar with.
And perhaps sell a few.................well that certainly worked. Didn't it? :wink:

They say it's the most copied gun ever! Maybe so, maybe not but there are certainly lots of that style out there. :hmm:

Many years ago {1976} I bought a TC "Hawken" kit which was my first venture into making or assembling MLers and it's still used for elk hunting. What puzzles me is that TC never offered it in browned steel hardware, seeing brass is one of the main objections. Evidently, the "Hawken" sold so well that TC didn't have to....Fred

Others have answered it pretty well.
I believe the gun was designed by designers, not historically focused craftsmen. It was designed to sell and the moniker was chosen for the same reason.
That said, I think it is ironic that an historicaly suspect, modern made, in a factory, rifle has now become inconic in the world of muzzle loading..
BTW, I thought they did offer iron (really steel) hardware as an option for some time.

Perhaps TC did offer their "Hawken" w/ iron hardware, but I've never seen even one...except some that were converted w/ non-factory parts.....Fred

flehto said:

Perhaps TC did offer their "Hawken" w/ iron hardware, but I've never seen even one...except some that were converted w/ non-factory parts.....Fred

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Could be. I did say "I thought". Memories ain't clear on that point.

I love the way the TC Hawken and Renegades look. I just do.

Now I have one of each, with plans for having a .54 and .58 Renegade barrel made.

Call me crazy!

Greg

In The Ten Ring said:

I love the way the TC Hawken and Renegades look. I just do.

Now I have one of each, with plans for having a .54 and .58 Renegade barrel made.

Call me crazy!

Greg

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I have both also.
I also have extra barrels in the long run plans for them. :grin:
The only thing I dont like about the Renegade (.54) is the lack of a patch box. Patch box's just look cool on BP rifles and I think they just need them to look complete. The Renegade looks incomplete to me.

"What puzzles me is that TC never offered it in browned steel hardware...."

At one time T/C or an "aftermarket" producer did offer some blued replacement parts, for the Hawken; the trigger guard, nose cap and maybe wedge escutcheons as well. However, I don't recall seeing other than the brass buut plate.

I believe they made a couple of limited edition Hawkens that had blued furniture like the Renegade. And don't forget the Cougars with stainless.

I really like the look of mid-century half stock rifles, so the TC appeals to me, especially with a longer GM barrel.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

the hawken custom had blue steel nose cap, triggerguard, buttplate & didn't have a patchbox. it had a 30 inch roundball twist barrel.

I have an early factory mfg 50 cal Hawken (5 digit s/n) & it doesn`t say Hawken on the barrel. Just there name, address & 50 cal.

I think the others have pretty much nailed it.

Big companies and their directors aren't really into history. They are into making a product that will appeal to as many people as possible.

Things like the depth of the rifling and the rate of twist being suitable for either patched balls or lead slugs.

A straight comb with the drop at the butt plate being similar to modern bolt action rifles rather than a stock with greater drop like the guns made in the mid 1800's.

One barrel wedge rather than two because, "They won't know the difference and it costs half as much as having two."

Brass was used on the old guns and shiny brass attracts peoples attention.

Bluing because it's what our factory is set up to do. Also, a new gun should have a nice shiny blue finish. Otherwise it looks old and scroungy.

A big adjustable sight because everyone likes adjustable sights that are easy to see.

A little curve to the butt plate but nothing like the old guns actually had. No one would buy it if it was deeply curved.

I think this kind of thinking is what went into designing the TC Hawken.

OH! The name?
Why not? Lots of people have heard of the Hawken and 98 percent of them don't have the foggiest idea of what they looked like.

I've talked to many people who are totally convinced that the original Hawken rifle looked just like a TC!
"After all, why would they make something like that up if it wasn't true?"

Absolutely right.
The peoples gun for the peoples price.
It was great until the fire destroyed the base they had built up. And we are fortunate that they lasted as long as they did.