Dovetail a barrel?

I have a Traditions 50 that I want to cut a dovetail for a front sight, is it extremly hard to do? I'm decent with tools but don't want to make a mess. The sight I'm wanting to replace is a plastic screwed on, it's a Pioneer model. For some reason I am liking this gun.
Or should I take it to someone who could machine it in?
Thanks for any information,
David

It's really up to you & whether you want to learn to do it. On the barrel is Not... where ya learn.

It's not hard at all, if you learn how to do it on some scrap metal, or what I practiced on was a 12" piece of 3/8" keystock. But here is a rough idea.

Mark the depth.

Mark the width of the TOP of the dovetail & leave just ? 1/32 or so meat there so the slot will not be too large.

Take a hacksaw & cut to the depth. Cut it as flat as you can, watching the line on the other side away from you. Some put them in a vice so they can only go so deep.

I cut the front & rear cuts first, then make a cut every 1/16" so I have allot of them in between the first & last cut.

Turn the saw at 45 deg & cut the first cut into the second cut, then do the next one, then next, til they are all gone.DO NOT get past your depth. Gonna look like manure when done but it will file out.

Now take a 6" Ultra Slim triangular file & take it to the grinder & Carefully grind off one flat. Take time & often quench the file in water as not to get it hot.
File the bottom of the slots all even now.

Take the file & start cutting the angled slot with the safe side of the file down. You will rotate the file cutting edge so the safe is up then down & keep the angle slot even at the bottom. Now do the other side.

Now take a flat file & file that very sharp edge off the piece going it. Just the very very edge as you file usually won't make that sharp a cut. If it is slightly rounded, let it go. Some are Very sharp, some not so sharp.

You want the piece to just start & have to tap it into the dovetail. I use a brass punch to punch mine in with.









This is a underlug, but same process for a sight.

First one I ever did took me an hour. Hundreds later I can now do 4 in 20 min. I always stake mine with a punch. Some do, some don't. So the more ya do the easier it gets & the more confidence ya get in doing them.

The important part is keep the file flat. Do NOT overcut the dovetail larger than the flat. If you are not sure where the file is hitting, blacken the cut with a permanent magic marker & then file & you can see where it is cutting.

Keith Lisle

That's exactly how I do it. It's easier than it looks. I was scared to death the first one I did. Just go slow and think through the process.

Brownell's sells very nice dovetail files, but they are a little expensive if you are only going to do a few dovetails.

That's exactly how I do it. It's easier than it looks. I was scared to death the first one I did. Just go slow and think through the process.

Click to expand...

X2

Bear in mind that dovetails don't have to be very deep - I think that 1/32" is more than enough for most applications, and you can get by with less. A couple years ago put an underlug on a scrap piece of GM barrel in a ~ .020 deep dovetail and then clamped the underlug in a vise and tried to pull it out. IIRC, I almost lifted one end of the workbench off the ground before the underlug slipped out of the vice - the underlug (made of 1/32" steel folded over) had buckled somewhat from the strain, but it remained in the barrel and the dovetails were undamaged. More than enough strength for a sight.


Also, if you have a set of calipers, using the depth gauge to ensure a consistent depth while cleaning out the saw cuts is a good idea.

The only other thing I could add is if you aren't that great with hand tools set some blocks on either side of the barrel to serve as filing guides so that the file stays perfectly horizontal.

The front sight dovetail is the most difficult to file in and if you feel that taking the bbl to a machinist for cutting the dovetail makes you feel better, then by all means do it. Now...cutting dovetails isn't all that hard and Birddog 6's pics and explanation are right on and if you want to learn how to do it, then get a safe sided triangular file, hacksaw and a narrow straight file. Measure the base thickness of the sight and that's the depth in the bbl you're aiming for. Once that's achieved , the safe sided triangular file is used to widen the dovetail for a press fit w/ the sight. I achieve a fit whereby the bottom of the sight blade, front and rear, just misses {.001-.002} touching the bbl....don't like it to rub off the browning in the final installation. Also...to level the slot bottom, 2 straight edges are used to ensure that the sight blade is perpendicular to the bbl flat....one straight edge lays on the bbl flat and the other is laid on the slot bottom. The 2 straight edges amplify any discrepancy. Also, the dovetail angles are checked for being parallel and that both are at right angles to the bbl w/ 2 pins that are held against both sides...again the pin length amplifies any discrepancy. Perhaps some don't make their dovetails as exacting as I do, or are capable of just "eyeballing" the dovetail...whatever gets the job done is the way to go......Fred

Fred, I gotta ask, why is the front sight dovetail more difficult than the others? I just did the front and rear sight dovetails last week, maybe on Friday, and you're right, the rear dovetail just seemed to happen by itself whereas the front took all of my concentration. I can't remember if this disparagy happens all of the time though. Maybe by psychic means, you pre-planted the difference in my head :nono: . Bill

The only thing I can add to what has already been said is; The front sight is more critical than underlugs or the rear sight. If the dovetail is not deep enough you will have a gap under the blade of the sight which not only looks bad but, catches leaves, or the inside of your gun sock. If the dove tail is too deep you could bend the sight blade when installing the sight or not even be able to install it at all. Carefully measure the thickness of your base shoe on your sight and make your dovetail that depth. I like the suggestion of using your practice on a scrap of bar stock before you do your barrel. It's kind of tedious, but not hard.

Birddog6,
I thank you for the way to do them. You have already saved me a lot of time as I wasn't aware of the flat on the file. Great information.
I am going to do this, I prefer doing things myself, enjoy the learning new things.
I'll order the sight and practice till it gets here.
Again thank you for all the information,
David

On all the dovetails except that for the front sight, I use an upsetting chisel. The raised metal on both sides of the lug dovetails is pounded down for a tight fit, filed flush and the raised metal on both sides of the rear sight dovetail is filed into moldings which allow a shallower depth. Asre the front sight...definitely don't like a gap under the blade, fore and aft and having to pound the blade so it's perpendicular to the top bbl flat. Ensuring both of the above does take some extra time....Fred

Here is how I do my lugs which is what Fred is talking about.As Fred said the front sight is the toughtest as you file it all in and the depth is important as the blade needs to sit tight on the barrel.
BARREL LUGS
The first thing I do after getting the barrel inlet in install the barrel lugs.I do this by cutting a small notch .025 thousandths and then peeling up the dovetails with a chisel.This is a fast and period correct method of installing barrel lugs.I use commercially available lugs which are usually ¾ of an inch in length. I cut these in half to make the lug 3/8” in length.

These are the basic tools I use to install my lugs.A chisel to peel up the dovetail and a small fuller to push it back down on the lug when finished.




I then paint both sides of the barrel with a magic marker and scribe a line at .025 depth.Then using a hacksaw and a pillar file I cut a notch like this one just a little narrower than the lug and no more than .025 deep.



Then using the cold chisel I peel up the lugs on both sides until the lug slips in .







Then using the fuller I push down the metal that I peeled up to lock the lug in place.





Once the lug is locked in place you clean it up and inlet.No solder is necessary and you haven’t notched any deeper than .025.





Glad to answer any ?’s
Mitch Yates

Here is a safe sided traingle file I discovered by accident while shopping one day.
http://www.stanleytoolparts.com/22-434-1-02-0d-0.html

At about $10 it's a lot cheaper than the ones at Brownells. I bought 2 and I have put many dovetails in and have yet to open the second one.

Not in stock on Stanley's web-site but this site claims to have them for $2.14...though I haven't ordered from them. But I may just order a couple at that price.
http://www.thecollegetoolbox.com/stshcutsawsh.html

Enjoy, J.D.

Actually, making your own safe (killed) edge 3 corner file isn't very hard to do.

Buy a good 3 corner file.
Buy either a good whetstone or a few pieces of wet/dry Silicone Carbide 150-180 grit sandpaper.

If using the sandpaper place it on a hard smooth surface, grit side up.

Choose a flat to dull and start sanding/grinding the teeth off by moving the file like you were filing the stone/sandpaper.

Keep this up until all of the teeth are fully dulled. You'll know when you get to this stage because the dulled teeth won't file your fingernail.

Keep in mind that both sides of this 'killed' surface needs to meet the sharp teeth on the remaining two sides with as sharp of an edge as possible so don't rock the file when your 'killing' the cutting teeth.

Yep, if you have an extra triangle file laying around, that works grand.

The one I referred to above, like the dovetail files from Brownells, has no taper.....a big plus when cutting dovetails. And for the price???

Used one again this evening...made in Japan for those interested.

Enjoy, J.D.

I used to file, then switched to upsetting chisel similar to Mitch's technique.
Faster (not too big a concern) and neater if you get the right chisel (a bigger concern).
When doing front sight, I end up adjusting shoe depth to the given mortice (within reason) - moreso than the other way around - to get the blade to sit on barrel.
Some lesson learned a while back about "always modify the part that's easier to replace".....
But if the shoe is filed too thin, it will bend when one goes to tap it in. This I know. :redface:
/mike

Thanks for the good information I have a Pistol that need a taller front sight and will try this.