1740/50's rifle architecture???

:idunno: Hey guys, I'm looking to do an early smoothrifle 1740-50 timeframe. I have a 48" oct/rd 54 barrel and was looking to get some confirmation of ideas I've had. It won't follow any specific school, but I dont want to use design cues from later time periods. So far I was considering,
1. tall, flat, wide buttplate with little curve.
2. forged iron sights, Brass front sightblade? iron?
3. a reclaimed fowler type iron t-guard.
4. 3 iron thimbles, handmade by me, what shape? flats? round? how long? is 2" to long? 3"?
5. an iron nosecap. Again, is 3" to long? I kinda wanted the thimbles and nosecap to be the same length.
6. Is there a typical length from breech to entry thimble or was it buyers choice?

I know this is a lot of questions, even though this will be from my school of design, I would still very much like this to be at least period correct in the general styling cues. Claude, feel free to move this if I posted in the wrong section or you think it would be better answered somewhere else.

Good luck.
As far as I can remember, the earliest signed and dated rifle made in America is the John Schreit rifle dated 1754.

Before that, primarily smoothbore guns and German Jaegers (rifles)....

I can suggest two things: get books on that era weapons, like Flintlock Fowlers by Tom Grinslade, or Shumway's book on Jaeger's.
Good luck

I have Grinslades book, thanks. Maybe I should say prewar rifle architechture with recycled hardware. There had to be rifles in England/France/Germany before the revolution. We had rifles here during FI time period right. Where did they come from?

The rifles colonials had here in the 1740's and 1750's largely came from Germanic countries, Holland, and England, like the other arms. Some fewer were made here in that timeframe, but there were gunsmiths and they were repairing and restocking rifles. If you are building a rifle with recycled parts it should have an octagon barrel for people to recognize it as a rifle, whether it has a rifled bore or not. If your intent is a smooth rifle look (rifle-built gun with a smooth bore), then octagon to round is fine.

The Marshall rifle is built in a 1740's-1750's style, but many consider it a restock done later. There are several other well known guns that could be of the same period. In "Of Sorts for Provincials, James Mullins shows a rifle that is stocked like a Brown Bess, but in maple and with an octagonal big bore barrel. In Shumway's Rifles of Colonial America, there are a number of colonial-built guns that could be of that period, and in some of Shumways Muzzle Blasts articles of the 1980's, rifles that almost certainly are of that period.

In general, a wide (2" or wider) buttplate that is vertically tall, 5" or so, a barrel with a large breech and a fast taper, a lock that dates to the first half of the 18th century, and furniture of the same period can be put together in whatever combination you like. Iron furniture or parts like thimbles would be rare.

I'm in your town and build early styled rifles so if you want to come over and brainstorm sometime let me know.

I would go with an import style for that era. If this is to be a gun from say the Virginia area, go English. If elsewhere, choose accordingly based on the history there.

smoothbore addict said:

So far I was considering,
1. tall, flat, wide buttplate with little curve.
2. forged iron sights, Brass front sightblade? iron?
3. a reclaimed fowler type iron t-guard.
4. 3 iron thimbles, handmade by me, what shape? flats? round? how long? is 2" to long? 3"?
5. an iron nosecap. Again, is 3" to long? I kinda wanted the thimbles and nosecap to be the same length.
6. Is there a typical length from breech to entry thimble or was it buyers choice?

Click to expand...

Good advice above from the Cap'n. The Chambers English Gentleman's Sporting rifle is a great choice for a Southerner. But since you posted the particulars above, and already have a barrel, etc, I'll answer best I can to those I neglected to address. 1. correct. 2. Generally a wide low iron rear sight, a silver blade in a brass base for the front, or all brass. 3. I'd prefer to see brass, just more common on an imported fowling piece. 4. For thimbles on the parts gun, consider using the thimbles that would have been with the guard and maybe buttplate that you picked off a broken gun. If they came off a fowling piece, ribbed short thimbles made if thin sheet brass would be my choice. And with a barrel that long, consider 4 thimbles. 5. No iron nosecap. I've never seen or heard of one on a gun that early. I'd skip the nosecap or make one of sheet brass. 6. Length of the forearm depends on how the gun will balance and your sense of style, and you may use some originals for guidance.

Well said Rich, I passed right by that as well.
To the OP, I would pick a certain area and group of people you think would have had this gun in your chosen period and you should get more detailed smoothed gun information to your great questions.

All good, sound advice Rich. Brass is the metal to go with for that period. Enjoy, J.D.

Well Capt. Jas. My fathersfamily immigrated from england to new england in 1632 and slowly made their way west to iowa over the next 200 years. My mothers family came from germany in 1740, settled in Va./N.C. and came to missouri in 1810 or so. This means I'm not really locked into any particular style or european influence. German, English, even French influence would all fit right in. :idunno: :surrender:

I really like iron, but it's looking more and more like I may have to go brass if I want it to be right. Thanks JD!? (read with mild sarcasm)

Take a look at the guns from TVM, Pedorsali and such vendors, in general this will give one a fairly accurate ideas od whgat direction not to go as for historic valid arhitecture and various aspect of original ML's...... :haha: seriously now, there are many good books showing and explaining many of the traits of original ML's few dated early guns exist but always look to originals whenever possible not others interpretations of someone elses interpretation of what they thought a gun might have looked like, this forum has many very knowledgable people who are top notch gun students and builders, a combination hard to find for the most part and most are willing to share their knowledege, just use a system of comparitive analyzing of info given to weed out the missinformation from less knowledgable folks who like to type a lot :yakyak:. Good luck with your project and enjoy the journey.

smoothbore addict said:

...... Thanks JD!? (read with mild sarcasm)

Click to expand...

:thumbsup: Enjoy, J.D.