squared v rounded stock

on some original guns I've seen on the various auction sights, it seems that the more prevalent way of making a pennsylvania long rifle stock was to cut the stock with a great deal of angles.

through much of the length of the forearm, where the ramrod is showing, rather than a rounded surface, there are flat planes.
On the comb of the stock, not a round surface, but flat to the butt, same on the heel of the butt, flat to the toe.

The only curved areas on these stocks are the grips and the forearm behind the ramrod last thimble.

(I wish I had a picture for this)

my question is - does this style of stock have any particular drawbacks or negative aspects? Does it have any good points?

YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING! Ever actually seen an old gun in person? :shake: I can't believe you're the one that wants to revolutionize the muzzleloading business. :slap:
Turn off the computer and go find some old guns and LOOK at them.

I, too, must ask: ARE YOU KIDDING????
No, really, I ask: What are you talking about?
Building that way you would revolutionize something. I don't know what. But businesses failing and going out of business isn't revolutionary.

:shocked2: :idunno: :youcrazy:

:rotf:

oh my

a few pictures down

he we go - have a look a few pictures down, took at the toe of the gun, you'll notice it's flat.

http://www.kentuckylongrifles.com/html/isaac_haines.html

here we have another example on the butt, behind the comb. rather than a curved over surface, the area is very flat toward the buttplate.

http://www.kentuckylongrifles.com/html/christian_oerter.html

On the last picture you'll notice the butt is almost flat, and would be save for the mount in the buttplate. The wood itself has a slight curve to accommodate the buttplate.

http://www.longrifles-pr.com/tennesseemtn.shtml

A tennessee hog rifle. The grip area is very angular, with a sharp rise right along the side, carrying on to the butt.

See what I mean? Angles were common. And now back to the original question -
Does an angular stock have any particular drawbacks? (ei. weak spots, recoil transfer, etc.)

See what I mean? Angles were common. And now back to the original question -
Does an angular stock have any particular drawbacks? (ei. weak spots, recoil transfer, etc.)

Click to expand...

Listen, get off the freakin' computer and drive somewhere in your area where there are old guns. There isn't a straight line or a flat surface anywhere on any antique KY rifle. Take a straight edge with you and see for your self.

:haha: He's gotchya guy's.
Good luck trying to get matty to understand.

Of course blank stocks are cut square, it allows the builder to install and carve/shape the stock to the school he's following,,

The first example looks to me to be evidence that inexperianced builders did exist in previous centuries also.
:idunno:

so is it fair to assume that these stocks are just unfinished, or built by lesser experienced makers, rather than purposely angled?

Yup.
Esp when looking at "American Long Rifles"

There are examples of much earlier fowlers and military smooth bores having flat butts and combs,
but you can't "Mix-n-match" different schools or era while creating guns without comming up with a mutt.

Please don't turn this into another
"I want to make a basic gun" thread again.

Try the Public Library for study, instead of randomly finding sources on the web.

that's exactly what I needed. :wink:

stands to reason that there are more young gunsmiths than old ones (what with dying being a thing).
Maybe the young ones just had more energy to make more guns, be they finished or not.
I still kind of like the angles on those stocks, they look kind of cool.

There is no substitute for handling and viewing original guns.

Butt you have to learn to interpret pictures so try this:

When you look at photographs look at the lines of light. if you look at a photo of a buttstock and you see a line of light that is where it light is reflecting off the surface.

If the surface were flat the whole surface would either be reflecting or abscent any reflection at all. Not a common trait on guns.

Line of light = curved surface. No line of light = flat surface. Understand?

Now, angles are different. Sure you can find intersections of surfaces that form "angles" on longrifles....but the surfaces that are meeting at that line are not flat but curved. Think of the cross section of an accorn or a heart....no straight lines, always curving but the curves intersect.

Hope that helps. Enjoy, J.D.

mattybock said:

so is it fair to assume that these stocks are just unfinished, or built by lesser experienced makers, rather than purposely angled?

Click to expand...

Unfinished? Isac Haines and Christian Oerter were two of the best gumakers in the 18th century. What would lead you to believe these guns are unfinished? The third picture is some sort of goofy modern day fantasy gun, not a good example of anything.
I know you have recently bought a screw driver for your future gun building business but I have to ask, do you own a muzzleloader? Ever see one in person? Ever shot one?

Hey Mike,
Why didn't you just tell Mattybock what he wanted to know?

Those stocks with the flat lines have a name!




They are called a Pattern!

:rotf:

SC45-70

own three, shot four, all modern made.

mattybock said:

own three, shot four, all modern made.

Click to expand...

By chance are they all angular and square?

mattybock said:

on some original guns I've seen on the various auction sights, it seems that the more prevalent way of making a pennsylvania long rifle stock was to cut the stock with a great deal of angles.

through much of the length of the forearm, where the ramrod is showing, rather than a rounded surface, there are flat planes.
On the comb of the stock, not a round surface, but flat to the butt, same on the heel of the butt, flat to the toe.

The only curved areas on these stocks are the grips and the forearm behind the ramrod last thimble.

(I wish I had a picture for this)

my question is - does this style of stock have any particular drawbacks or negative aspects? Does it have any good points?

Click to expand...

:shocked2: I'm no expert myself but, I can't help but think, this along with other strange ideas you have posted along the way, are your way of poking someone in the eye, or you are just plain silly.
Robby

in some spots, yes. not totally though, but no gun stock is.

"your way of poking someone in the eye, or you are just plain silly"

I think your right,
Mattybock is just enjoying a little sport at others expense. :shake:

mattybock said:

in some spots, yes. not totally though, but no gun stock is.

Click to expand...

OK, why listen to me, I started building guns 7 years before you were born. :rotf: