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can't dry my barrel?

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WH .50

36 Cal.
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
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Hey guys,I've been lurking for a good while and just want to say that ya'll seem like a good bunch of guys. I've learned alot just snooping around on here. Anyway,I've got a strange problem that I'm hoping someone can help me with. I have a brand new T/C Hawken .50 cal.in flint that I shot for the 1st. time on Sunday. After my shooting session I cleaned the barrel in hot soapy water with jag/patch just like I do my other rifles. I then rinsed with patch/jag and clean water and then I proceeded to patch the barrel dry. The first dry patch went down and came back out good. The second dry patch went down smooth and jammed on the way back out. I could push it back down easily but I could not get it to come back out. I poured water down the barrel to wet the patch again and worked it back and forth a little and it finally came out. I then switced to a different jag and tried to patch it dry again and the same thing happens again!! By now I'm really frustrated because there I sit with my brand new rifle barrel rusting inside while I've got a ramrod stuck in the barrel and can't get it dried and oiled.(I'm anal about my guns) :cursing: After finally getting my ramrod out the 2nd. time I wound up having to spray a ton of WD-40 down the barrel and flushing that around in there and forcing the water out that way before lubing with Remoil.I have been muzzleloading for about 10 yrs. and have 4 other rifles and have never had this problem before.(I've had patches stuck in fouling before,but never in clean barrels).I measured the 2 jags with dial calipers and there was 5 thou. of an inch difference between the 2 (second one was smaller)and they both did the same thing. I also tried different patch material that was thicker and had the same result. Basically,if my barrel or patch is WET (with either water or lube) they slide in and out easily.If the barrel and patch are completely dry they slide in and out easily as well. The problem comes somewhere between wet and dry.You can feel the patch getting tighter as the barrel gets drier, but I can easily run a completely dry patch in the completely dry barrel.Does anyone have any experience with this and can someone please help?? THANKS IN ADVANCE and I will return the favor one day,I promise!!!
 
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Since this "ain't your first rodeo", I don't think it's part of the litany of first-timer's learning curve problems. My first hunch is that it's something to do with the new barrel. Maybe the old Scotchbrite trick will be the ticket.
 
WH.50 said:
Basically,if my barrel or patch is WET (with either water or lube) they slide in and out easily.

Good, and that's to be expected.

If the barrel and patch are completely dry they slide in and out easily as well.

By this statement, I'm assuming the bore is 100% clean at this time...and if so, the statement 'should' say your jag and patch size are correct. (although personally, I think there's always a little risk sliding a snug dry patch down a dry bore)

The problem comes somewhere between wet and dry.

The only thing that comes to my mind for this condition is that there is still some fouling in the bore causing the dry patch to jam up;
(Shouldn't be a patch of rust or bore irregularity causing the problem if a dry patch slides in and out of a clean dry bore OK)

Based only on my own experiences, this is a strange symptom to me...it'll interesting to see what it turns out to be.
 
Master Blaster said:
sounds like your patch is bunching up on the return stroke, try using a thinner patch, half of a patch or a taller jag
Thanks I will give that a try.
 
I never have problems with a dry patch in a clean barrel in any of my TC rifles. If you don't already have one, get a good solid range rod with a "T" handle and a nylon bore guide. Getting a patch stuck with a ram rod is not fun. A stuck patch with a range rod that has a "T" handle is no problem. I just walk over to the picnic table and place the "T" on the edge of the table and work it out. While doing this I hold the barrel and the nylon bore guide.
 
Simple solution.....Put denatured alcohol on your last one or two patches. This serves the dual purpose of not getting the last patch stuck and also having the alcohol combine with the last minute traces of water to speed evaporation of the last trace of moisture. Follow up with the corrosion preventer of choice Ha! Now you owe me! I've got a long memory too. cheers Paul
 
roundball said:
WH.50 said:
Basically,if my barrel or patch is WET (with either water or lube) they slide in and out easily.

Good, and that's to be expected.

If the barrel and patch are completely dry they slide in and out easily as well.

By this statement, I'm assuming the bore is 100% clean at this time...and if so, the statement 'should' say your jag and patch size are correct. (although personally, I think there's always a little risk sliding a snug dry patch down a dry bore)

The problem comes somewhere between wet and dry.

The only thing that comes to my mind for this condition is that there is still some fouling in the bore causing the dry patch to jam up;
(Shouldn't be a patch of rust or bore irregularity causing the problem if a dry patch slides in and out of a clean dry bore OK)

Based only on my own experiences, this is a strange symptom to me...it'll interesting to see what it turns out to be.
Your statement about fouling left in the bore makes me curious about something. I remember when I first got the gun I was cleaning the brown stuff out of the barrel that T/C uses with some #13 on a patch and the same thing happened when I tried to dry the bore but I dismissed it as a fluke thing. Squirting some #13 down the bore loosened the patch and it slid out.This makes me wonder if the "brown stuff" T/C uses is the culprit. I only fired 14 shots on sunday so COULD it be that all the brown stuff is not gone yetand it is "sticky" enough to cause my problems? I did see a tiny bit of brown on my patch that I ran through sunday night when I was checking for rust/relubing.Maybe the combination of a fairly tight barrel and the "brown stuff" is causing this? I'll take the advise given above and see if a thinner patch will help. THANKS AGAIN!!
 
Cut your cleaning patch smaller!
Sounds to me that your cleaning patch is to big.
In some of my barrels the dry patch needs to be smaller than the wet one or it sticks in the bore.

SC45-70
 
paulab said:
Simple solution.....Put denatured alcohol on your last one or two patches. This serves the dual purpose of not getting the last patch stuck and also having the alcohol combine with the last minute traces of water to speed evaporation of the last trace of moisture. Follow up with the corrosion preventer of choice Ha! Now you owe me! I've got a long memory too. cheers Paul
Thanks Paul,are you saying to put alcohol on the patches immediately after cleaning with water and not even trying to dry the bore? Just let the alcohol do the work?
 
if your jag is same size as end of rod,,it will "fold" the patch up making it stick.. my rod ends are tapered(thinner after end where jags screws in) so patch has room to "fold"
 
jammed on the way back out
I don't think it has anything to do with the wet/dry issue. Something is grabbing the patch. There may be naked threads where the breech plug does not fully engage the end of the breech. Or, there could be a piece of metal where the touch hole was drilled, or, if you have a liner, it could be sticking into the bore slightly.
Use a good bore light and take a look. If you see anything unusual in there contact TC immediately and report the problem. Do not try to debreech yourself before talking to TC.
 
WH.50 said:
I did see a tiny bit of brown on my patch that I ran through sunday night when I was checking for rust/relubing.
Whether or not that residual brown is contributing to the situation or not I wouldn't know...but generally speaking, if something is still coming out on patches it probably needs to be removed before it gets turned into asphalt...LOL.

For stubborn residue along the sharp 90 degree corners of the lands & grooves, Shooter's Choice makes a product called Black Powder Cleaning Gel and it'll dissolve anything that might be left in the bore...4 or 6oz bottle I think.

Just get a patch sloppy wet with it, run it up and down a couple times, repeat with more gel, then let it sit for 5-10 minutes.
Then clean the bore like you normally would.

NOTE: Pay attention to the directions if you also use a bronze bore brush...as it states, unless the brush is rinsed off completely, the Gel will dissolve the bristles overnight.

Just a personal opinion, not challenging other suggestions:
I used a variety of T/C & GM replacement drop-in barrels over the years and never had to resort to different size patches on different strokes, or alcohol patches to make something work...as you said, you don't have the problem with the same patches & jag in a clean dry barrel...so right now, I'd worry other activities might mask over / compensate for a problem in your bore until you figure out the root cause.

If you get it cleaned back down to the bare raw metal, at least you can then eliminate any possibilities of those brown streaks that you saw looking down in the bore as contributing to the problem.
 
NOTE: Pay attention to the directions if you also use a bronze bore brush...as it states, unless the brush is rinsed off completely, the Gel will dissolve the bristles overnight.

I never heard of the stuff, but if it will dissolve bronze bristles over night, I would hope the instructions would include "wear rubber gloves"! What will that stuff do to stock finishes?

I found Ballistol is the best cleaner I've personally used.
 
WH.50 said:
I remember when I first got the gun I was cleaning the brown stuff out of the barrel that T/C uses with some #13 on a patch and the same thing happened when I tried to dry the bore but I dismissed it as a fluke thing. Squirting some #13 down the bore loosened the patch and it slid out.This makes me wonder if the "brown stuff" T/C uses is the culprit. I only fired 14 shots on sunday so COULD it be that all the brown stuff is not gone yetand it is "sticky" enough to cause my problems? I did see a tiny bit of brown on my patch that I ran through sunday night when I was checking for rust/relubing.Maybe the combination of a fairly tight barrel and the "brown stuff" is causing this? I'll take the advise given above and see if a thinner patch will help. THANKS AGAIN!!

I've always bought my TC's used, but I wouldn't be surprised that you've found the culprit. Lyman ships their barrels with what sounds like the same preservative, and it's a bugger until you get the stuff out. Patch sticking as you describe, accuracy loss, and more.

I haven't tried the cleaner that Roundball recommends, but I completely trust his experience and expertise. On my first encounter with the gunk I used some NAPA brake pad cleaner, just three or four patches wetted with it, and the gunk was gone for good. Later I tried carburetor cleaner with the same results.

Gotta say, you're one of the first guys I've encountered in a long time who actually had a brand new TC rather than used. Congratulations, and keep us posted on your experiences with it! :thumbsup:
 
flintlock62 said:
I never heard of the stuff, but if it will dissolve bronze bristles over night, I would hope the instructions would include "wear rubber gloves"! What will that stuff do to stock finishes?

Its been available for at least the 20 years I've been in muzzleloading...used it several times.
The label has all the usual precautionery comments.

ShootersChoiceBlackPowderCleaningGel-Photo185845.jpg
 
The more I think about it the more I think the preservative in the bore combined with a tighter than average bore may be culprit. The tiny trace of brown I found on my dry patch sunday night when "checking the bore" did not look like rust,it was more the color of the preservative.I cleaned the rifle after shooting until the patches came out white,then flushed with WD-40 to get the water out then two Remoil patches for lube.The Remoil patches came out white.I used the same jag/patch combination on this rifle that I use on my other .50's and it feels a little tighter in this one but not by a noticable amount.Maybe there is a small trace of bore preservative left and it is causing enough extra drag(stickiness) to "fold" the patch on the way back out? I'm going to give her a good scrubbin' tonight and see if I can get any more brown out. If that doesn't help,a 50 shot range session should do the trick!!THANKS AGAIN for all the excellent advise/help!!I'll keep ya;ll updated on what I find. :hatsoff:
 
First thing I would do is throw away that TC no.13 bore cleaner, its worst than useless. Just some water with a dash of dishsoap is all ya need to clean your barrel, follow it with a patch of alcohol then oil it. Second if you have more "brown stuff" in there shooting it will just turn it into a tar like substance. Use some brake or carb cleaner to get the rest of the stuff out before shooting it anymore.
 
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