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My two cents says that all this info you got is good, even the musket caps, I use them, just like them better they seem to work better in my two rifles. I got one that works fine with a #11. Even have one that shoots Pyrodex better than Goex or any other bp. The main thing is to find what your rifle likes best and stay with it. Oh yeah have fun doing it.
 
OMG, I'm having a great time with this MLing stuff, my wife asked if this was going to be my new shooting hobby? (I do compete regularly in a couple of other disciplines using that new fangled CF ammo) :wink:

I really appreciate everyone's encouragement and input.
 
Yes, Goex 3F can be used in a .54 caliber rifle. Lyman's Black Powder Handbook and Loading Manual, 2nd edition, shows a top charge of 120 grains of BOTH Goex 2F and 3F, and 120 grains is their max for most calibers in this book. 90 grains of Goex 2F and a .535 ball gave them 1480 fps at 5,000 psi. 90 grains of Goex 3F gave them 1475 fps with 5,300 psi. 120 grains of Goex 2F went 1803 fps at 8300 psi and 120 grains of Goex 3F went 1735 fps at 8300 psi. You use the same measure setting.
 
Longtrain said:
It's ok to use FFFg in a .54? (Excuse my inexperience) :idunno: I though that that size bore needed FFg?

So, if I get some FFFg, does the charge by volume remain the same or does it need to be modified due to smaller grains?

Thanks for helping this newbie.

Tony

I've always used fffg in my .54 since 1982. (I think originally jus because I was told I couldn't), however, I think generally you'll get better accuracy with the ffg. [I said generally, not always!]
 
SO I get this private message from a guy a while back. I am not adding his name to protect the innocent. Anyway he asked me how I get my guns to fire every time. So I sent him a note. I am going to copy and paste this in case anyone want to see how I do my cleaning. He used this method and his guns went to shooting on the first cap. I use this method on my TC Renegades and Hawken. Ron
____________________________________________________________



What I am thinking about your procedure is you get the bottom of the barrel a little too moist. Then you fire the caps into the moist bottom and things get sticky and nasty. You pour the powder in and maybe the first few tiny grains are into the moist sticky cap powder mixture. That is not a good mix.

Ok let me go on farther. Here is my procedure to load.
I get to the range with a gun that has oil in the barrel.
I use a jag and push a dry patch down and pull it out.
I turn it over and push it down again and leave it there.
I use #11 mag caps. Put one on and fire it into the patch. I do this 2 or 3 times.
I pull the patch out and make sure it is burnt good.
If you pop a cap and it doesn’t look like this pop another one until the oil is gone. By using the patch to catch the fire and the oil as it blows down the barrel it is ready to fire. At the peak of hotness.

Patch1.jpg



Now It is ready to load. I use Pyrodex P. I pour the powder down and lean the rifle over with the lock down. I tap the rifle on the butt of the stock to get the grains of powder to settle into the nipple area. Then I finish loading.

OK between shots I clean the rifle.
I squirt some windex on a patch but not too much. I swab it, and repeat if I have to.
Then I put a dry patch on and push it down and pull it out. Turn it over and push it down again.
NOW!!! I Fire 2 or 3 caps again with the patch on the jag. Check to be sure the patch is burnt. If so load again if not fire a couple more caps.

Patch2.jpg


This patch above was not burning well enough so I popped a couple more caps to get the gunk and windex out.

Patch4.jpg




I have seen sticky black thick stuff stuck on the bottom of the patch that
would have fouled up the load if the patch had not caught it. Here is a couple of pictures that show the gunk that would have blown back down the barrel. This wet sticky gunk is what causes most guys to have hang fires and even not fire at all.
Just putting on a can and aiming it at a leaf to see it move is not enough in my book. If you catch that sticky wet gunk it won't foul your load.

Patch5.jpg

Patch6.jpg



I think firing caps into the patch makes a huge difference. Ron
 
At the other end of the spectrum...

I NEVER fire a cap before loading my percussion GPR.
When I clean it I use plenty of water and flush it out good with the breech end of the barrel in the bucket and a patched jag on my cleaning rod. This does a very good job of cleaning out the bore, breech, and fire channel. While I am doing that the nipple is soaking in a soda cap full of water. When I am done with the barrel I clean the nipple out with a pipe cleaner and blow thru it to make sure it is clear.
BTW, I usually use Ampco bronze nipples. Nothing fancy. Nothing against the Hot Shots etc.

Before I load I run a dry patch down the bore to wipe out any oil. While doing this I listen to the air being blow thru the nipple. That assures me the nipple is still clear. Then I run another down into the powder chamber in the breech to make sure it is also wiped clean of oil.

Next I load with 3F Goex and a patched ball with the hammer on half-cock. Having the hammer up off the nipple lets air flow freely out of the nipple and some powder will be blown right down thru the fire channel to the base of the nipple. Listen close and you will hear the air. I don't slap the gun or anything.
Cap and fire.

Between shots... I just reload. Unless there is going to be a long wait before the next shot, like at a shoot when my target is done and a couple other guys are still shooting, then I'll run a spit patch or 2 and a dry one. I've gone over 30 shots without wiping between.

I have never had a missfire when I did it this way.
I have had missfires on 3 separate occasions in 6 years and a couple thousand shots with that rifle and every time was my own fault for being lazy or forgetful.

So, you see, there are wide variations between what works for one guy and what works for another. You'll figger out what works for you. :thumbsup:
 
Longtrain said:
OMG, I'm having a great time with this MLing stuff, my wife asked if this was going to be my new shooting hobby? (I do compete regularly in a couple of other disciplines using that new fangled CF ammo) :wink:

I really appreciate everyone's encouragement and input.

It will not only become a hobby, but can be a downright addiction!
 
I have used the same technique that you describe with my Caplocks for years, with equally good results. Mine do not have those reduced diameter powder chambers, but your system works to load and reload my gun time after time. I learned the technique from an old friend at my gun club. :grin:
 
I just obtained my first caplock rifle last month, prior to that I had a traditions trapper pistol. I have never had a misfire with the trapper and so far with around 50 rounds through my GPR it has not misfired. No patches in between shots, Ballistol and water lube, Goex power. I did run a patch soaked with Ballistol and water at around 30 shots because things seemed a bit rough near the breech. If your breech is not wet/oily to begin with and you have clean combustion, I can't see why you would ever have a misfire. Don't flame me, I am new but a quick study.
 
Sounds like a sure fire method but at the current price of caps I couldn't bring myself to use that many up on clearing a nipple,snail or bolster when reusable pipe cleaners are available.
I think if you switched to real black powder you wouldn't have to go to so much trouble and expense to get the same degree of reliable ignition you now enjoy with the current regimen. MD
 
No thank you. I wouldn't touch real black with a 10 foot pole. Wait you can't buy it locally so I can't touch it with a 10 foot pole :rotf: . I don't know why anyone would want to use something that is not locally available. Ya I know that a person can order like what 50 pounds and get a great deal :youcrazy:

Then again if you switched to Pyrodex p and used my method of cleaning you might be able to do this. Just saying. :hatsoff:


316grMinie100yardsinfoadded.jpg

500SW3-22-08small.jpg

9-25-10Lsmall.jpg

Mybuck55.jpg

2009buck05-A.jpg


Cap prices are cheep. When I get the kind of results I get cap price is nothing. Save your money by not buying coffee, or tobacco. Then you can afford to buy caps. Ron
 
Then again if you switched to Pyrodex p and used my method of cleaning you might be able to do this. Just saying. :hatsoff:

Nice pics Ron. :thumbsup:

I don't have any pics of paper targets to show you but here's some of the prizes I won last year at some of the shoots I went to (altho some were won with flint guns);

HPIM1489.jpg


HPIM1593.jpg


And a couple of medals from the NMLRA Nationals. (flint pistol, no caps :surrender: )

_MG_67353.jpg


And some decent bucks over the years (whitetails tho)(lotsa does);

HPIM0718.jpg


BigBuck.jpg


Real blackpowder, open sights, no cap-poppin', real results. :wink:
Whatever works for you. :thumbsup:
 
Good looking animals. :thumbsup: So tell me how is Black so much better? I tied for shooter of the year. I won a hand full of blanket prizes. I also won a turkey for shooting a pool ball at 130 yards. All done with pyrodex.

So I have to ask again how is real black so much better? Would Real black make me the next ML rifle champion of the USA? :idunno:
Some might not believe it but I used to shoot black. When I first started to shoot black and PRB;s 35 years ago. A guy could get it over the counter back then. After Real black was no longer sold in most stores I like a lot of other shooters moved on. It is funny how most threads boil down to guys saying that if you don't shoot the "holy black" and use a PRB you are not good enough.

We all have different ways to get things done. You have had some success with your ways I have had PLENTY of success with mine. I am not going to say my way is better but I won't be switching to anyone else's way any time soon. My ways work for me. If someone with a "TC rifle" is having trouble with ignition troubles I offered MY way. If they choose not to use my method that is fine. But my method does work for me that is why I posted the pictures.
Ron
 
Ron: It sounds to me that you have made a CHOICE to use Pyrodex P. No one here is criticizing your choice.

But--- It does sound that you have intentionally NOT experimented using Black Powder, and can't answer for yourself how well your groups would be if you did so. Is that true? :idunno:
 
I have been told that Pyrodex will not fire in a Flint Lock unless a small amount of BP is poured down the barrel first and the lock is primed with BP like 4f. I have tried 777 and Pyrodex RS in my TC Flint lock with very little success. Tell me your Flint Lock secret. Pyrodex and 777 does work great in my percussion rifles. Maybe I have misunderstood and you only use Pyrodex in percussion guns. :confused:

BTW I only ask the question because of the Flint Lock pistol on your post.
 
paulvallandigham said:
Ron: It sounds to me that you have made a CHOICE to use Pyrodex P. No one here is criticizing your choice.

But--- It does sound that you have intentionally NOT experimented using Black Powder, and can't answer for yourself how well your groups would be if you did so. Is that true? :idunno:

Paul Like I said I used black and PRB back 35 years ago. I can't get it local, and I don't need it. But this is not about why I use Pyrodex.

Lets get back to the original problem. The OP was about a TC Renegade not wanting to shoot. It also was apparent that the rifle in question had done this for a long time. I gave MY recommendations based on me having several TC guns. I know some people have posted about how they get their GPR's and other rifles to shoot. I clean and prepare each shot as if I am shooting my next trophy buck. Or as if my life depended on that one shot.
Do I need to follow my reloading practice to the letter? No I don't need to tip the rifle over and tap it but I know that helps. Do I need to fire 3 caps to push out wet crud between shots? Maybe not. Like I said I load every shot as if my next shot was at a buck of a life time. When you consider that here in Idaho I waited over 15 years for my antelope tag. Yes I am going to cross the T's and dot the I's. I some times have to wait two to three years to get a deer tag. While my measures seem extream to some the OP will find that those measures will make his rifle fire the first time. Then he can adjust that practice to fit HIS needs. :hatsoff:
Ron
 
Idaho Ron said:
We all have different ways to get things done. You have had some success with your ways I have had PLENTY of success with mine. I am not going to say my way is better but I won't be switching to anyone else's way any time soon. My ways work for me. If someone with a "TC rifle" is having trouble with ignition troubles I offered MY way. If they choose not to use my method that is fine. But my method does work for me that is why I posted the pictures.
Ron

Exactly what I was trying to say from another angle. :thumbsup: Just sayin' there are different ways to get good results.


So I have to ask again how is real black so much better?

In MY experience black is better. YMMV. I have used Pyrodex RS and P in CVA, Traditions, and T/C rifles with some success. I also had more misfires than what I liked. So I switched to real black. I found it to be more reliable, easier to clean up, and I didn't need to swab between shots like I did with the Pyrodex.
I never said your way was wrong nor disputed your success or results. Just showing the other side of the coin. Keep on doing what you are doing. It obviously works very well for you. :v
 
Swede50 said:
I have been told that Pyrodex will not fire in a Flint Lock unless a small amount of BP is poured down the barrel first and the lock is primed with BP like 4f. I have tried 777 and Pyrodex RS in my TC Flint lock with very little success. Tell me your Flint Lock secret. Pyrodex and 777 does work great in my percussion rifles. Maybe I have misunderstood and you only use Pyrodex in percussion guns. :confused:

BTW I only ask the question because of the Flint Lock pistol on your post.

Sorry Swede50, You must have misread my post. No secret, I only use the real black in my flint guns, or my capguns for that matter.
 
First, thanks for all the information, it proved to be very helpful.

I made it to the range today with real BP, Goex 3F, .435 RB's, .010 patches and #11 Mag caps. I swabbed between shots with patches misted lightly with Windex and after 20 shots, I had NO misfires. Every shot went bang and allowed me to shoot 3-4" groups at 100 yards. Recovered patches had no cuts in them and were pretty uniform.

More work needed on the load and other ball diameters and patch combinations to try and reduce that group size.

This is very habit forming, I love it...
 
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