• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades

Cap and Ball Load

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

McDaniel

Pilgrim
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
I just bought a cap'n'ball revolver. It is a Pietta- Griswold & Gunnison .36 cal. Modeled after the Colt '51 navy. I have never shot black powder and was wondering what/where to get powder. I ordered some Alliant MZ, without doing much reserch on the matter. After looking up to see if there was a certain grain weight that I should use due to it being a substitute, it looks like this might be a bad choice on powder to purchase. I understand that I need to be looking for some FFFG, like goex or some sort. But I am having a hard time finding it by the pound and to order over the internet. And If anyone has heard of the Alliant MZ, Is it safe to go ahead and use it or should I try and pass it on? Currently I am in Afghanistan, so just going to the local gun store is out of the question and want to shoot this pistol when I get home for leave. If there is any suggestions, I would greatly appriciate it.
 
Welcome to the forum and Thank You for your service. I'm not familiar with your Alliant MZ powder, i have used Triple7 3f powder in cap and ball revolvers. Most on this forum will tell you black powder is best (me included). You can get small amounts (or large) from Graf&Sons, but there is a haz mat fee and an adult signature is required for delivery.

steve
 
Alright. Thank you verry much. I will look that up and try to get some ordered. I am looking at somewhere around a 20-25 grain load for that cylinder with the triple 7 3f, correct?
 
Your brass framed revolver will not take the pounding of long term use of maximum loads. While it will be safe to fire with all of the correct powder the chambers will hold it will very quickly become loose from such loads. I'd keep my everyday loads down around 15-20 grains by volume measure. There are many blackpowder substitutes on the market but the one that has been around longest and which is probably still the most common is Pyrodex. Nearly every gun shop and sporting goods store, even Walmart, will likely have Pyrodex on the shelf. It comes in "RS" for rifle and shotgun or "P" for pistol but actually either one works about as well as the other so if you can only find "RS" it is perfectly OK to use in your revolver. Ordering powder involves a HazMat shipping charge and is just not worth it for small quantities, it's much more economical to buy what you can find on the shelf and I'm sure you can find Pyrodex about any place which handles powder at all.

I just saw the above post and I would definitely NOT run 25 grains of triple seven in a brass frame revolver!! T-7 is a hot powder and produces much higher pressures than an equal volume of blackpowder or Pyrodex.
 
Wow. I didn't think about the brass not being able to take as much of a beating. Thank you.
 
what area of the of the country do you call home ,when in the U.S.A? if someone here lives nearby they could tellyou where to get what you need to get started.
 
CoyoteJoe you are correct. The Hodgdon website gives load info for Triple7 3f for 36 caliber cap and ball pistol at 15 & 20 grains, and that info is in steel frames. No mention of brass frames or warnings about brass frames anywhere that i cold find. Pyrodex load info doesn't specify frame type.

steve
 
Your Alliant powder will work all right but it isn't very powerful when compared with other substitute black powders or real black powder.

Just shoot it and enjoy the boom.

As for powder recommendations for your brass framed .36 I agree that real black powder is the best but Pyrodex P will work fine.

The damage in your brass framed gun that can result from using powerful powder loads is the possibility of the cylinder banging into the recoil shield stop when the gun is fired.

This isn't really dangerous but it obviously isn't something that people would want to happen.

For your .36, use .375 diameter balls and keep the powder loads in the 15-18 grain range. (A steel frame .36 would be in the 18-23 grain range).

If you are shooting Seven7seven your powder loads should be in the 13-16 grain range.
 
One other thing. I would seriously recommend the use of 2F, not 3F in brass framed guns. Much less stress on the gun. It wants a bit more ramming pressure than 3F, but most of my guns shoot as well or better w/ 2F than they do 3f - just a little lower velocity.
 
i agree... keep the load very light when using a brass frame! they were built because iron was very scarce, and brass is very easy to machine, but i wouldn't go past the fifteen grain mark. you can use (as i do) a charge (in my case, a bit more that fifteen grains, but i'm shooting a Ruger Old Army- steel frame fortyfive calibre) then an over powder card, then some instant grits, then a felt wad full of lube, then a roundball. i put some grease over the ball, and it fills the cylinder and goes boom each and every time.

not sure if you can get real blackpowder to and APO, but Pyrodex should be OK. i wasn't aware that the charged a HazMat for Pyrodex, but it's been a very long time since i used the stuff.

Good luck in the 'stan. Keep you head down, and bring yourself and your folks home safe!
 
McDaniel said:
I just bought a cap'n'ball revolver. It is a Pietta- Griswold & Gunnison .36 cal. Modeled after the Colt '51 navy. I have never shot black powder and was wondering what/where to get powder. I ordered some Alliant MZ, without doing much reserch on the matter. After looking up to see if there was a certain grain weight that I should use due to it being a substitute, it looks like this might be a bad choice on powder to purchase. I understand that I need to be looking for some FFFG, like goex or some sort. But I am having a hard time finding it by the pound and to order over the internet. And If anyone has heard of the Alliant MZ, Is it safe to go ahead and use it or should I try and pass it on? Currently I am in Afghanistan, so just going to the local gun store is out of the question and want to shoot this pistol when I get home for leave. If there is any suggestions, I would greatly appriciate it.
Welcome aboard! You will find a lot of valuable info here and a lot of helpful folks as well. As mentioned, keep the loads light in that brass framed .36 cal. I have a friend that got a little brass frame Colt navy when we were in High school and he always pushed it to the limits. Most of the time he loaded it to the point that the ball was barely seated below the cylinder face. Needless to say, it was whipped in little over a years time and became too sloppy to shoot safely. 15-20 gr. of 3f black should do you fine. Trip 7 should work well also, just lighten the load a bit more than for black and use good quality caps. Good luck and thank you for your service to our Country...BPS
 
I am stationed at Fort Drum, N.Y. home is Fort Worth T.X. New Yorks pistol laws wont permit me to even touch one at a dealer, so I think I will only be shooting when I am on leave or when my commitment is up.
 
McDaniel said:
I am stationed at Fort Drum, N.Y. home is Fort Worth T.X. New Yorks pistol laws wont permit me to even touch one at a dealer, so I think I will only be shooting when I am on leave or when my commitment is up.
It's a small world. My Brother in law lives in Natural Bridge N.Y. and his 240 acres border part of the Fort Drum complex. I know what you mean about N.Y. laws, I live less than 1/4 mile from the N.Y. border. I have had a concealed carry permit for Pa. most of my life and N.Y. won't even allow me a handgun hunting permit. If I cross the state line with a handgun, I might as well be in Communist Russia, minimum $1000 fine and/or 1 yr. in jail! Yet Pa. is good enough to reciprocate a permit for N.Y. hangun permit holders...BPS
 
I had a very similar revolver that I ruined...

I can not say for certain that it was running max loads all the time as it could as easily been my hamfisted Gorilla Monsoon hangin on the loading lever. Still I would for certain run lighter loads IF I had a brass framed revolver today.

Were it me I would load about 13 to 18 grains of FFFg a wonder wad and enough filler (corn meal, grits, or cream of wheat) to get the ball just a bit (1 16th or so) below the surface of the cylinder. Then I put some home made grease over the ball.

You can melt some beeswax and mix in some olive oil to make that grease, you need to experiment just a bit to get the right mix for your area by mixing a batch and putting it in your automobile in the summer and playin with the ratio until you get one that don't go runny. I have used bore butter or crisco but they are really messy, not so bad at the range but ugly when you load er up and slide that pistol down in a holster and let that manure go all over your fine handmade leather holster that you paid $175 for... It aint such a big deal in my $20 holster tho it is rather messy.

Now some are going to say you don't need the grease if you use the wads and some will say you don't even need the wads if you use the right ball and caps. I happen to agree with both of them BUT the one time I left off the grease (this was before I knew of the wads) I got a chain fire. AND that grease tho messy will serve to keep any fouling soft and can lessen any leading of the bore.
 
Back
Top