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Bought loaded Hawken

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mjulihn

40 Cal.
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
219
Reaction score
1
Location
Camino, CA
I recently picked up a early TC Hawken in 50 cal. on GunBroker. First order of business of course was to disassemble, clean and inspect it carefully. I suspected there was something in the bottom of the barrel by the amount of ramrod still showing when fully inserted. I gently probed with a ball puller jag and out came a plastic sabot. Below the sabot was a felt wad and a modest charge of 2F powder. Next came a conical bullet, another felt wad and more powder before I reached the bottom of the breach. I emailed the seller that it would be good idea in the future to inspect any muzzleloader before selling for this condition. Imagine what may have happened if an unwary buyer were to have simply fired off a percussion cap to "clear" the nipple??
 
Oh Yeah Man, Good on ya for looking! :thumbsup:
You actually see that more than you think. One of the first things I do with ANY used ML for sale is slide the ramrod down the bore.
Can't believe the bozo sold it on GunBroker AND shipped it without checking,, :shake:
 
Interestingly, the seller included a written note with the rifle that it was being sold as "collectible" only and was not warranted to be safe or functional. A full refund was offered (less shipping) if not acceptable to the buyer. It is now functional but was certainly not "safe".
 
You have to watch those auction sites. Some people don't have the slightest idea about muzzle loaders. When they call a T/C Hawkens or a Lyman GPR a true antique, that's a big clue to move on. Some people fall for it. Kind of feel sorry for them :shake:
 
I bought one off eBay right after eBay got started. It got here USPS & had 80 grains of 2F & a patched roundball in it. I told the seller the rifle was loaded. He said No Way, cause he put a RR down the bore & it was empty. :confused: I asked him how that would tell anything ? He said if it was loaded the RR would not go in the barrel. :bull:

Apparently he forgot, don't know, or just don't care of the part about putting the RR down the bore, marking what is sticking out of the RR with your thumb & laying it along the outside of the barrel & seeing where the tip ends up in according to the breech. As soon as I saw this one had 6" of RR sticking out, I said "Oh boy"...... Turns out it was undamaged, but not a good feeling when that happens.

I saw a guy at a gun show one time pick up a flintlock & fire the lock.... I immediately told him & the Seller, don't ever ever ever do that again !! Guns are ALWAYS ..... to be considered to be loaded...... And I told them the story....

And you know what the seller told me ? "Oh, the post office wouldn't allow you to ship a gun like that". DUH........... I figured he must have been related to the guy from the pawn shop... :youcrazy:

Keith Lisle
 
A few years ago I bought a powder horn on e bay, shipped through USPS and it had about a 1/4 pound of real black in it when I unboxed it, kinda sent a chill down my back. Jim
 
As far as Im concerned ALL guns are loaded at all times 24-7. Even my grandsons BB guns. Most people that shoot modern guns with good safety practises dont have the faintest Idea about muzzleloader safety or most that I've been around anyway :idunno:
 
That's pretty funny about the sabot and charge. That sounds like the guy knew something was in there and thought he was being smart.
 
I was glad when my son and I took the hunters safety class that the person teaching it had traditional ml rifles, he had one not go off and showed us how to check the rifle and how to safely pull a charge. This was 9 years ago so now you could imagine what the class would be like now pellets and plastic sabots.
 
I have learned to expect them to be loaded and happy if they prove not to be loaded. I have bought way too many old guns that still had an old load in them. Some were even from gun traders that I thought would have checked to see if they were loaded.
 
Yessir, I agree completely. I bought a New Englander at a regional gun show awhile back, brought it home, dropped the ramrod in and found it loaded. I took it immediately back to the dealer and showed him. He offerred to cut the price in half so I decided to take the chance.

I brought it home, cleared the sabot and charge, and performed a thorough cleaning. Turned out to be an extremely accurate rifle.
 
James Bond said:
I recently picked up a early TC Hawken in 50 cal. on GunBroker. First order of business of course was to disassemble, clean and inspect it carefully. I suspected there was something in the bottom of the barrel by the amount of ramrod still showing when fully inserted. I gently probed with a ball puller jag and out came a plastic sabot. Below the sabot was a felt wad and a modest charge of 2F powder. Next came a conical bullet, another felt wad and more powder before I reached the bottom of the breach. I emailed the seller that it would be good idea in the future to inspect any muzzleloader before selling for this condition. Imagine what may have happened if an unwary buyer were to have simply fired off a percussion cap to "clear" the nipple??

That was a good catch on that....you really have to watch those auction site guns some sellers on there dont have a clue
 
I bought 3 rifles one weekend at a flea market in southern Ohio that sells a lot of firearms. Two of the three were loaded. I nearly expect it now.
I bought a very clean, possibly unfired, Investarms Hawken .50 cal at garage sale last summer. I told the guy I thought it was loaded. His gun expert 45 yr old son said "I'll show you how to check to see if it's loaded". He blew down the barrel to check for air from the nipple. No air came out. He said I think your right. They cut the price from $150 to $125 with a horn and bag. When I got home I removed the nipple, blew air thru it with the air compressor, and it turned out not loaded. Cleaned up like new.
Treat them all as if they are loaded.
 
I've already told the story about the muzzleloader I bought at a gun show. I found that it was loaded with smokeless powder when I got home.

As any of you who have been to a gun show knows, they try to check each gun that a person is carrying into the show to make sure it isn't loaded.

More than one show I've attended while carrying one of my muzzleloaders hasn't bothered to check my guns.

I've asked several of the inspectors why they didn't check my gun to see if it was loaded.
Each one of them said, "It's a muzzleloader. I can't look into the breech to check it." or words to that effect.
Needless to say, I took the minute to show them how to use the ramrod to check the gun and they got this, "Now, why didn't I think of that?" look on their faces.

Maybe the rest of us should take the time to educate the people who run gun shows? :hmm:
 
I have taught a Hunters Ed class for the state of Ohio for a number of years..When we get to the ML section (both types traditional and non) we always go over how to check your ML to see if it's loaded. It has always surprised me at the number of ML hunting adults, who bring their kids to my class, who don't know how to check it either.
 
Ditto on the hunters Ed. I have found the same thing. One of my clubs has a muzzle loading Etc. gun show, and before anyone can bring a gun into the building we check it with our own rammer. It is astounding how many say "Its not loaded." Our answer is "It's not empty and safe till we check it, and tag it." many don't know how to check as stated. Glad to hear safety is first with you guys. I get kind of nervous at "modern" gun shows sometimes with guns laying right next to loose ammo.
 
When my son took his hunter's ed I went with him. The instructor was a curator for Parks Canada, our national parks system. He told of receiving a shipment of old muskets, 1812 era from another museum. He told his staff "we should check them" and they all laughed. three of the first five tested positive and the laughing stopped. Final ratio was two in five positive. Amazing.
 
This thread reminds me of the biggest, most foolish blunder I ever made with a firearm. It was in the mid-90's was when I was in Mexico filming at the humble adobe home of Emeterio Pantaleon, the last living man to have fought in the Mexican Revolution under the command of Zapata.

As we were talking about some of the battles he participated in he handed me an ancient black powder double barrel percussion shotgun that he had fought with, and encouraged me to look it over. I immediately pointed the barrel away from everyone present and began to explain to a friend next to me about how black powder arms functioned. Curious to see if the lock still worked, I pulled one of the hammers back. There was no percussion cap on either of the nipples, and so as I continued to explain how a black powder shotgun would be loaded and discharged I pulled the trigger. Ooops. The danged thing went off and blew a hole in the wall of Emeterio's house. I was covered in black powder soot and adobe bits and felt extremely extremely stupid. Emeterio just laughed and laughed.

The moral of the story is, a black powder gun is always loaded and - percussion cap or not, is ready to go!
 
Mattole said:
Ooops. The danged thing went off and blew a hole in the wall of Emeterio's house.

The moral of the story is, a black powder gun is always loaded and - percussion cap or not, is ready to go!

Wow! Makes me wonder if the cap had stuck to the hammer. :hmm:
 
Grey Whiskers said:
Mattole said:
Ooops. The danged thing went off and blew a hole in the wall of Emeterio's house.

The moral of the story is, a black powder gun is always loaded and - percussion cap or not, is ready to go!

Wow! Makes me wonder if the cap had stuck to the hammer. :hmm:

I actually checked that before cocking the lock and pulling the trigger. I think it was some ancient cap residue on the nipple itself, preserved by the dry climate, that caused the discharge.
 
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