When Flint Strikes Hammer

Basset said:

They only eat flints if they're too close to the frizzen. When adjusted right I can get a lot of use from a flint. My last flint in the fowler got around 40-50 w/o a problem.

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I found that if my lock is eating flints I need to slightly change the angle of my frizzen foot.
I talked in length to Chambers as well as L.C.Rice(orginal owner of L@R) and both felt that close flint to frizzen was a must and it's also what I have found to be needed for fast consistant inginition.
I have no hang fires or slow inginition if I pay attention to detail.
I also clean my frizzen,foot and flint between shots and pick my vent, I make sure my charge is right to the out side of my vent and my prime is level just underneath my touch hole. I also don't drop my frizzen on my prime but lower carefully so as not to disturbe it.
but hey each to his own, there is a lot of mahaba bajamba voodoo in muzzleloading and I honestly feel that even tho my guns like what I do to them I could hand my gun over to somebody elce and say do it this way and it won't work as well(been there).
I am also left handed so I am a far more advanced muzzleloader than most :rotf:
but all seriousness aside if your gun is eating flints at any distance from your frizzen it(lock)may need to be tuned.

:hatsoff:

At some point you are going to have to get a digital camera to show us exactly how you are getting a minimum of 80 shots per flint! You can tell us but pictures are the way to go.

ebiggs said:

At some point you are going to have to get a digital camera to show us exactly how you are getting a minimum of 80 shots per flint! You can tell us but pictures are the way to go.

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I agree!!
I document everything with photos and leave nothing to memory, that way no one can say :bull:

ebiggs said:

At some point you are going to have to get a digital camera to show us exactly how you are getting a minimum of 80 shots per flint! You can tell us but pictures are the way to go.

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:grin:

Wiping the flint down with Holy Water prior to shooting also helps. :grin:

It would take a lot of pictures, and a lot of different locks to get people to understand how to analyze and modify a lock to make it work better, while removing as little material as possible. Its easier to show someone in person with their own lock, than to write about it, or picture it.

As to the doubters, and critics, they are entitled to their own opinions. I seriously doubt that anything I do- pictures, videos, testimonials-- will make them change their behavior. I do not live my life for their personal approvals. I am willing to help others learn how to tune their own locks.

I learned by reading everything I could find on lock tuning; then listening to everything I could learn from smiths, and builders; then took my own lock to the school of trial and error. Anyone on this forum can do the same, and having read the posts of many who are far more advanced in their experiences with MLERS, I am sure that many could do much better than me. I referred to "reverse Engineering" because I lack any other phrase to describe how I figured out all the little tricks that work, and verified, or discarded, the writings of more experienced lock tuners. Because there are all DIFFERENT kinds of locks being made- both originals, and replicas-- there is NO ONE set of ABCs to use in tuning every lock. :shocked2:

But, the Reverse Engineering analysis is the SAME. :hmm: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

When I kept track of such things I had a flint in my Bess last 12 shots then the next one lasted 87 and the one after that 3. The rock has a lot to do with it so does luck.

Foster From Flint

So does the lock, and how the flint is held in the jaws, etc. There are many factors.

I had a vug( a foreign piece of rock) hidden inside the beveled edge of my flint, that broke out one time when I fired my gun in a parade. I looked down to wipe the flint and there was this huge hole in the middle of the flint, leaving small ends of the flint's edge on the outside of the flint. I was able to see a bit of the foreign substance that created the lock attached to the back of the hole in the flint, and knew what it was because of a Geology class I took in College. I also had seen similar structures(?) in both pieces of obsidian, and Chert, prior to this event.

NO ONE can plan for these things. You CAN deal with many other conditions however, and tuning the lock is one of them. :hatsoff:

Well for pities sake you can not tell everyone you get 80+ from each your flints, in each of your locks and not give some detailed instructions. And that would necessarily include pictures or even a YouTube video. No matter how different a given brand of lock may be the basic method has to be similar.
C'mon on be a teacher and teach. :bow:

I wrote an article that is posted under "Member resources", on shooting and tuning flintlocks. Read the article. If you have specific questions, ask me in a PT. I don't currently have access to a Brown Bess lock of any manufacture, so I am reluctant to attempt to talk about how to tune this one without pictures to assure me that it is similar to the ones I have seen and worked on before.

I had the rare privilege of handling and taking the locks out of a Double Barreled, 1776 Tower armory made 12 gauge shotgun, about 30 years ago, now. It is owned by a private collector, and his son obtained it for me to see, and examine. The barrels were 36 inches long, and the LOP only 12 1/2 inch, yet it fit me like a glove. I don't recall the Drop at comb or drop at heel, nor the Pitch. If I measured them, I have forgotten.

The point of this is to assure members that this very rare shotgun, obviously made for some British officer, who bought it at his own expense, had locks that were sweet( smooth) to cock, with minimal tension in both mainsprings. And, obviously, the armory DID make Left Hand Bess locks.

The gun weighed more than 8 lbs. but I have long ago forgotten the exact weight. It balanced where your hand naturally held the forend, and that made the gun swing like a feather. I have since held shotguns with 24 inch barrels that did not handle nearly as well as this original DBL shotgun did. I was thoroughly impressed with the total craftsmanship of the gun. The heavy brass butt plate was almost 3" wide at its widest point, BTW. The Barrels looked like the gun had never been fired. Magnificent. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

Confused on that reply!?!? :hmm: Don't know what that has to do regarding locks, but.....
Can't you use whatever lock you have to show us how it's done? You don't need a specific lock, do you? We need pictures, man, pictures. Pictures are better than words explaining. You know the 10,00 word thingy?

Can you give a link to your article? Maybe I'm blind, but I can't find it and would like to read it.

I'm a bit confused. Are we talking shots from a flint including the shots as it is knapped or just shots before any steps need to be taken?

I am talking getting 80 or more strikes from the total flint. Yes, I knapp it when needed, but I set my locks so that the flint "self-knapps" with each strike. And, Yes, I move the flint forward in the jaws, and Yes, I have even turned a flint around to get more strikes from the back side of the flint when it gets down to a nub. That is when I can exceed 100 strikes per flint. On a large siler lock, or my old Cochran lock of similar size, I get about 25-30 strikes before I have to move the flint forward in the jaws. :hmm:

If you go up on the Index page to this forum, to a box that is titled, " Member Resource", towards the bottom of the box is a thread named, "Articles, Charts, and Links". Click on "Articles and How-to", and you get a table of contents. The third article down is titled: "Flintlocks: How to Shoot them".

All the articles are posted by Claude, but when you click on the article, you will see the longer title, and the author's name. I have 4 articles on that thread so far.

I have read all the articles and think this is a huge resource for members to use. Even after 30+ years messing with MLers, I have learned something from each of the articles posted.

If you go up on the Index page to this forum, to a box that is titled, " Member Resource", towards the bottom of the box is a thread named, "Articles, Charts, and Links". Click on "Articles and How-to", and you get a table of contents. The third article down is titled: "Flintlocks: How to Shoot them".

All the articles are posted by Claude, but when you click on the article, you will see the longer title, and the author's name. I have 4 articles on that thread so far.

I have read all the articles and think this is a huge resource for members to use. Even after 30+ years messing with MLers, I have learned something from each of the articles posted.

Mainsprings, and other parts are shaped differently in some replicas. You can do some things with some of them, that can't be done in others.

Just to give you an example, some mainspring are attached to the tumbler with a Stirrup; while the more traditional mainsprings have a HOOK on the end that rides in the curve of a "horn" on the front of the tumbler. There are a whole series of things that can be done with a Hooked end mainspring and tumbler that simply can't be done with those with stirrups. There are other options to use to improve the spring tension, and its affect on tumbler movement( hammer fall), but they are more limited than when working on the more traditional mainsprings.

Some mainsprings are held to the lockplate with a screw, while others have a "tab" at the end of the upper arm of the V-spring that slides up into a slot in the bolster above. I can't do as much tuning to a mainspring that screw-mounts to the lockplate, as I can with the older kinds with the tab that slides up into a slot.

Do you now understand why I asked for people to send me a PT and a photo of the backside of their locks so I can see what they have, before giving them step by step advice on tuning the lock? :idunno: :hmm: :thumbsup:

Thanks...found it!

I understand
Thats Wonderful Good info
I have been a Centerfire gunsmith for 20 years
But never did anything with Flintlocks, bar a part replacement on a Traditions or the like.
"for some reason I get how things work"
You can bring almost any weapon to me, in a box ,all apart and even if I have never seen one before .I can put it back together and it will work.
Thanks, I understand and have no fear in moving foward on the tune up .myself
The know how, on this site is Fantastic.
"Just ask" and the answers are there.
Deutsch

Do you now understand why I asked for people to send me a PT and a photo of the backside of their locks so I can see what they have, before giving them step by step advice on tuning the lock?

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No, not really. I can accept there are different shaped parts in each lock but I can't see how the basic approach or method is so different you are not able to explain or show (photos) of the procedure.
As you know, I have already told you I think your article in the Member Resource area has many mistaken theories in it, so I am really questioning whether you can get my locks to 80-120 shoots per flint on average. I reckon we must leave it there an move on. :idunno: