Flash rust with cool water?

Perhaps some of you have some suggestions, seems like I'm getting flash rust with cold water when cleaning. My patches turn from black-grey-brown. I use room temperature water with two drops of dish detergent. Pour down about an ounce of water and pour it out. Do that twice, then brush, then wet patches with jag. I alternate Ballistol/Water soaked patches and just water patches. Ending with alcohol patch, which is really brown. Then Sheath as bore protectant. Why am I getting rust with what I'm doing? :idunno:

They way you're doing it shouldn't cause the rust you're seeing, unless you are going so slow that it's giving the barrel time to rust. I doubt that's the case.

I'm wondering if the rust is forming between the time you last fired, and the time you start cleaning the rifle, unseen and under the fouling. The first two pours of water wouldn't get rid of any rust already in the bore, and the brushing could be churning it up some, making it look worse than it is.

Virginia is a pretty humid place, and if you're using spit or water to swab the bore, you could be leaving the range with a moist, cruddy bore. Now, if you zip up the gun in a warm guncase for the trip home, it could make this situation worse, just right for a little superficial rust to grow until you clean it.

Or, you could just be waiting too long before you clean it, allowing time for rust to grow.

If this sounds like it may be what's happening, you could dry out the bore a little better before going home. Or if you're waiting a long time before cleaning, try hitting it sooner after shooting. Hope this helps. Bill

Once rust get's started it seams to just be there on a microscopic level, it's usually not a big deal as long as you don't let it progress.
FWIW, when I clean, I use gallons of water if possible, I can get by with a quart or two at rendezvous.

When I'm done with a shooting session I will run a couple of cleaning patches down the barrel to get it reasonably clean then wet a patch down pretty good with Ballistol and swab the barrel several times. This will keep everything on hold until I can do a proper cleaning later that Day or evening. In my area the humidity can be quite high at times and always worry about putting a dirty rifle in a gun case then storing in the back of a vehicle for hours but have never had a problem using this method works for me.

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'll try this out. To be sure, I clean the rifle right when I get home from the range but maybe a few patches with Ballistol before leaving would help some.

Get and use a bore light. I have started to use one each and every time I clean a gun. Clean patches do not truly indicate a 'clean' bore.

Hubertus said:

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'll try this out. To be sure, I clean the rifle right when I get home from the range but maybe a few patches with Ballistol before leaving would help some.

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You should be using Non-Aerosol Ballistol when ya put it away for bore protection, not the aerosol. The aerosol is too thin, but the areosol makes a good short term inhibitor & good penetrating oil.

Keith Lisle

Hubertus said:

Perhaps some of you have some suggestions, seems like I'm getting flash rust with cold water when cleaning. My patches turn from black-grey-brown. I use room temperature water with two drops of dish detergent. Pour down about an ounce of water and pour it out. Do that twice, then brush, then wet patches with jag. I alternate Ballistol/Water soaked patches and just water patches. Ending with alcohol patch, which is really brown. Then Sheath as bore protectant. Why am I getting rust with what I'm doing? :idunno:

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You need to rinse the soap out with clear water.
Soap is corrosive and some of the "green" products are really bad.
Dan

I agree with Dan. You are pouring out the dirty water, but you are NOT apparently flushing out the remaining soap with clean water.

A little clean water on a patch won't do the job.( How much do you have to rub your hands together to rinse off the soap? ) :hmm:

I'm the type that swabs between every shot, so on my last shot i'll swab and then lube with Ballistol. When I get home there isn't much to clean, but I still stick it in a bucket of soapy water to flush back and forth with a patch That cleans everything better than what you're doing. Then finish with clean water to flush out the soap. Then patches to dry and Ballistol.


Someone has to ask, so it might as well be me. What are you using for powder?

Capper said:

I'm the type that swabs between every shot, so on my last shot i'll swab and then lube with Ballistol. When I get home there isn't much to clean, but I still stick it in a bucket of soapy water to flush back and forth with a patch That cleans everything better than what you're doing. Then finish with clean water to flush out the soap. Then patches to dry and Ballistol.


Someone has to ask, so it might as well be me. What are you using for powder?

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Who else would be better qualified? :hmm:

(Jes' pulling yer leg Pete!)

Yes, also curious as to what you are shooting (or what's been used before?) as to powder?
Also, have you tried a ScotchBrite pad when trying to scrub out the rust?

What lube you useing? Bore butter has a problem with turning hard and black in the barrel and can lock in rust when use with the synthetic powders.

Not enough water for the rinse!

Why not use Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine AT THE RANGE with a RANGE ROD till the patches come out white?? Then take the cleanest set of patches and soak in a little more chemical, and apply liberally around the hammer & nipple (or touch hole). Reduce the time that the salts can attack the gun, and use lots lots lots more good 'ol fashioned water!

One more thought: city water or well water with extra IRON?

Dave

Capper: I also swab between every shot. Patch lube is drylube patches 7:1 Ballistol, Dutch Schoultz's method. I only shoot blackpowder, no substitutes. Swiss 3F vice 2F seems to give me the best groups until now.
Dan Phariss and others raised a good point, I think I need to flush better than what I have been doing which has just been soaked patches. I'm shooting a Chambers' kit Haines rifle, so the barrel is pinned and can't be submerged in a water bucket. Also, the tube flush system can't be attached, too much width. So, I'll resort to several ounces of clean water afterwards sloshing around the barrel...or I may leave the soap out altogether.

Yeah, just flush with water. It will be fine.

Flushing with water and some Ballistol will be ok too, and add some protection. Then straight Ballistol when it's dry.


btw I thought Dutch didn't want you to use water at all?

smokin .50 said:

One more thought: city water or well water with extra IRON?

Dave

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You beat me to it, my thoughts exactly! Even with a softener and whole house filtration, the iron count in my water is high. Any dirty dishes left overnight contacting metal utensils leaves an iron oxide stain on both surfaces. I'm no chemist, but if you're using softened well water, the sodium count probably doesn't help matters much. I've noticed the same flash rusting with cool water when cleaning my howdah, but strangely enough not with my revolvers.

Using softened well water...no city water here. How did you guys get the iron out?..or do I have to use a "waterless" cleaning method?... even Moosemilk or the 1:1 recipe of Ballistol or Murphy's Soap Oil is half water.

I have an abnormal high content of iron in my well water, but I don't think it's ever been an issue with cleaning my ML's.

After reading your cleaning methods, and whatnot, that you employ when leaving the range, I don't think the rust is forming between the time you last shot and the time you start cleaning, as I suggested before. Probably more like what Neechi suggested, you just got some rust started at some point, and it's difficult to eradicate it.

I had this problem years ago, with a barrel I had been cleaning with hot water (before I knew better). No matter how much I cleaned, the next day a light coat of rust would be in the bore, as seen on the patches. I did finally get rid of the rust by hitting the bore with 0000 steel wool and then an oiled patch, everyday for three or four days in a row. I would pump the steel wool and then run down oiled patches until the patch was clean. The next day I would check with an oiled patch to see if it came out brown. If it did, I would repeat the process again, and check it again the next day. Finally, I checked the bore with a patch and it was pristine. I Switched to cold water and never had a rust problem again.

That barrel is over 20 years old and is now on my daughter's rifle, and has stayed rust free ever since. Just a thought. Bill

Also, the tube flush system can't be attached, too much width.

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I have to ask why ? My flush tube attachment will go over a 1 1/4" barrel. You go over just the barrel, not the wood. I have flushed them with the tube system from a .32 cal 3/4" straight barrel to a .62 cal D weight swamped barrel & the flush kit fit them all. The ones I use come from Wayne Dunlap. I do modify them slightly & take the O'ring off & install a flat faucet washer & file a place out there so the flat washer will stay flat with the screw adjuster all the way backed out to max opening..

Keith Lisle

I stopped using hot/cold water and detergent years ago when I found that the breech plugs tend to rust into the barrels, no matter how much oil you put in after cleaning. Been using a 30:70 Ballistol and water mix and have never had a rust problem since. (Ok, I live in a dryish area.) After shooting, I swab the barrel with this mixture and then continue cleaning back at home, using the same mixture. Unless the gun will not be used for months, I don't even bother oiling after wards and when I oil, it is Ballistol. Wonderful stuff.