Newbie GPR todo list

Greetings everyone, I'm in the midst of taking the plunge into black powder and should shortly have a new Lyman .50cal GPR in my hands. I'm initially interested in hunting and I figured for a first musket it would be a solid choice. I did a decent amount of research before purchasing and I wanted to run the bits of knowledge I've collected by the more experienced black powder shooters to see if there are any additional comments or if I've missed anything. Apologies in advance for any repetition I know some of this is contained within other threads.

Nipple -- Most of what I read says that one can expect to have to replace/modify the factory nipple on the Lymans. I ordered an AMPCO 6 x .75 mm in case.

Sighting In -- I've read that you pretty much want to put 100 or so rounds through a new musket before bothering to sight it in. I'm planning on doing so and then my understanding the Lyman's often require a decent amount of filing done on the front sight?

Powder/Ammo -- I do have the 1:60" twist so plan on exclusively shooting roundball. The general "baseline" consensus I've seen is something like:

Powder: Goex ffg (if available) or Pydrox RS
Patch: .15" -- and not sure what material??
Ball: .490" to start with

I would appreciate any feedback regarding the above and anything else that will help me down the right path.

Welcome to the site. First, NO ONE is going to be able to tell you the EXACT bore diameter of that rifle. We do know that most Lyman rifles in .50 caliber will shoot a .490" ball well. But, ITS UP TO YOU to measure the bore with calipers to determine the exact BORE DIAMETER( land to land) and Groove depth and diameter of your particular rifle.

Groove depth will be a big influence on the thickness of the fabric patch you use. Most of us use Mattress ticking patches in the .015"- .018" range. You will need to use a caliper or Micrometer to measure the thickness of the fabric you use as patches.

We can recommend lubes to use on those patches, but only trial and error will tell you what works for you, in that rifle.

You may need to use a slightly larger diameter ball, or even a slightly smaller diameter ball, to get the best accuracy. You may need to use a different patch thickness, or even a different fabric( than mattress ticking) to get better consistency. And, you may need to use another lube to get smaller groups.

Lyman sells a good product. With the correct ball, patch and lube combination, in front of the right powder charge, you should expect to shoot 5 RBs into a group under 2" at 50 yds, using a rest, and the iron sights on the gun. But, if you have not used iron sights before, it will take you time to learn how to use them correctly. Some people NEVER learn to use iron sights correctly. If you have problems, ask more questions here, and find a shooting coach to help you.

I'd use 3f Goex, pillow ticking, and Windex or olive oil for lube. The .490 ball will work well if it's easy to load.

Make sure that your patch material is a natural plant fiber. Cotton or linen are good. For patch lube olive oil works really well. Petroleum based oils are off limits as they react with the sulphur to make a tarry mess that is hell to clean.

Hi Christian,

First I would like to say Welcome to the Muzzleloadingforum. :hatsoff:

You have made a very good choice for your first rifle.(a musket is different :wink: ) Sounds like you've done some homework already. Good on ya.

The first thing you'll want to do when you get the new GPR is to clean ALL of the shipping grease crud out of that barrel really well. Brake cleaner from the auto parts store works well.
Don't forget to clean the chambered breech. It will take a .32 or .36 brush with a patch over it. And clean out the flash channel with a pipe cleaner.

The nipple you ordered is a good choice. I've been using them for several years and they work great.

I highly recommend installing the primitive rear sight as soon as you get the rifle. It gives me a much better sight picture than the adjustable rear sight that comes on the barrel. I've heard from quite a few others that agree. A fixed sight should come with the new gun.
Don't file the front sight until you've run a few shots thru and developed your best load.

Try both 2F and 3F powder to see which your gun likes best. I have a .50 that likes 75 grains of 2F. I had a .54 that liked 80 grains of 3F. I have a .54 now that seems pretty happy with 80 grains of 2F but I have not yet tried the 3F in that rifle...
From my experiences you will probably need a .018 or .020 patch with the .490 balls. Maybe a .495 ball and a .015 patch. Try a few different combinations.

Looks like you are well on the way down the right path already. Have fun, shoot straight and be safe. Welcome to your new addiction. :grin:

christian said:

Greetings everyone, I'm in the midst of taking the plunge into black powder and should shortly have a new Lyman .50cal GPR in my hands. I'm initially interested in hunting and I figured for a first musket it would be a solid choice. I did a decent amount of research before purchasing and I wanted to run the bits of knowledge I've collected by the more experienced black powder shooters to see if there are any additional comments or if I've missed anything. Apologies in advance for any repetition I know some of this is contained within other threads.

Nipple -- Most of what I read says that one can expect to have to replace/modify the factory nipple on the Lymans. I ordered an AMPCO 6 x .75 mm in case.

Sighting In -- I've read that you pretty much want to put 100 or so rounds through a new musket before bothering to sight it in. I'm planning on doing so and then my understanding the Lyman's often require a decent amount of filing done on the front sight?

Powder/Ammo -- I do have the 1:60" twist so plan on exclusively shooting roundball. The general "baseline" consensus I've seen is something like:

Powder: Goex ffg (if available) or Pydrox RS
Patch: .15" -- and not sure what material??
Ball: .490" to start with

I would appreciate any feedback regarding the above and anything else that will help me down the right path.

Click to expand...

Welcome friend! :hatsoff:
1st of all you will get some great info from this forum... Jethro has given you some GREAT advice here.
After you have taken the 1st 100 shots getting used to the feel and function of your new caplock then you get serious about "sighting in".... You mentioned hunting so I would work up a load starting at 70 grains of powder and moving up in 5 grain increments to untill you get your BEST/Tighest 25 yard group. NOW: There are SEVERAL variables that you will want to address/explore and sooner is gooder.... GOEX vs Pyrodex. FFg vs FFFg and RS vs P. You will also want to try .015 patches vs .018 and .020 lastly there are .490 balls vs .495. My GPR is a .54 cal but based on its preformance I bet you end up some where around 90grains of powder, a .490 ball and a .015 or .018 patch.

AFTER you have gone through the variables and have found the MOST ACCURATE combination for YOUR Gun(take your time, this can can take a day or two) THEN you actually "sight in"; 1" high at 25 yards will make you about 2.5" high at 50 yards and that will put you at approximately 1" to 2" low at 100 yards which gives you a point blank aim at a deer to 100 yrds.

AND.....Once you have decided on what YOUR gun like best I recomend that you start buying the materials to make your own stuff...Patches, RB Molds.etc. Just :2

Oh and you are now duty bound to report your progress periodically so we can hear how you are moving along! :thumbsup:

the lyman is a good rifle I'm kicking myself still for selling mine. I found with the semi buck horn they come with is use the small v in the bottem for 75-100 yards. sounds like almost every one else covered all the rest i can give you. by the way what do you plain on hunting and at what ranges?

One more thing, drill and pin the ramrod ends BEFORE they come off with an attachment down in the bore. It will happen sooner or later if you don't.

I would also recommend getting a good rigid-handled range rod. You'll be glad you did when you find that you need to pull a ball. Mine are made by Treso and I really like them. Track and other suppliers sell them.

...OK that was 2 more things. :yakyak: :yakyak: :yakyak: :grin:

Thanks for the quick feedback everyone. I'm very used to iron sights so that shouldn't be a problem, and I will be taking Jethro224's advice on installing the the primitive rear sight (I had just assumed it was the one on the gun by default).

Good head's up about the rod issues, that wasn't something I was even looking into.

Overall it seems like the general consensus is I'll be doing some experimenting for powder/ball/patch/lube combinations to find what works right. That's fine with me and part of the fun The responses give me a good spectrum of what to test with.

I'm hoping to have a chance to begin breaking it in over the weekend and will definitely report back my experience.

Oh and apologies for using any improper nomenclature. I've been shooting for years but only with modern firearms.

Christian

The only thing I might add from my VERY limited experience is...it's possible that your GPR will come with rifling sharp enough to cut your patches. Every third shot or so, I go pick up my patches and see what they look like. If they have holes in them, likely causes are that your patches are too thin and/or your rifling is too sharp. For the rifling, just wrap some steel wool around a brush, oil it up, and swab it a bit.

First pic is bad patches. Second pic is good patches after using a little thicker patch and a steel wool treatment.





To the veterans...if that's bad advice, don't hesitate to call me on it. That was just my personal experience and remedy.

Worked for me too. :thumbsup:

Oh yeah, Christian, on the primitive sight, you'll have to peen the base just a bit to make it fit snug in the dovetail. Don't know why but they make 'em loose.

Christian,

it goes without saying (every time you hear that one, it probably needs saying) that whether you use pyrodex or BP, the rifle must be immediately and thoroughly cleaned after use, and as mentioned above, without petroleum based products.

bramble

Thanks for the feedback. I'll hopefully be using it as a deer rifle and for the most part that will be in central NC. So, a lot of woods, hills etc. and figure most everything would be well inside of 100 yards.

So after dissembling, cleaning, mucking with the wedge pins to get them to fit better, and reassembling I finally got a chance to go shoot a muzzleloader for the first time.

My goal was just to put some lead down range while I get used to the gun and let it break in. I ended up on a 25 yard range (a relatively flat, not completely overgrown stretch of woods) on a beautiful 93 degree day with lots of humidity.

So for everyone's amusement here are some observations I had (in no particular order)

1. A powder measure probably would have been a better purchase than a powder horn.

2. It was a *good* idea of mine to double check the ratios between black powder and Pyrodex RS (which is what I ended up being able to find). "Hmmm...80gr by weight sure seems like a lot of Pyrodex..."

3. I remembered to follow the recommendation of first shooting a cap with a minor powder charge to clear things out. After going through a few caps I figured out a patch was a necessary step (this is either common sense or the humidity was causing the powder to stick in the upper barrel).

4. I didn't really understand what the point of the silly "short starter" was until I tried to load my first patch & ball. It would have been a short day if I hadn't picked that up.

5. So what's why the call them ramrods! I don't think I truly understood the name until today.

6. Muzzleloaders have almost no recoil. Weeks ago I was debating between the .50 and .54 and ended up opting for the .50 partly because I didn't know what to expect and just blindly assumed that these huge guns would also have a huge kick. Needless to say I was very surprised.

7. I expected the sights to be more off than they were, but while I wasn't particularly concentrating on aim it seemed to shoot where I was pointing it. I'm definitely looking forward to putting some more rounds through it and shooting at longer distances.

I got my first .22 when I was four years old and have been using modern firearms for most of my life. This was one of the most pleasurable experiences I've had shooting a rifle and I think I may already be hooked. Honestly I'm kicking myself for not getting into it earlier

Good stuff. Read the patches. You may be in for a frustrating time trying to sight it in if the barrel isn't 'broken in'. The patches will let you know.

OUTSTANDING!! It only gets better!! :hatsoff:

Well, when you said,
"2. It was a *good* idea of mine to double check the ratios between black powder and Pyrodex RS (which is what I ended up being able to find). "Hmmm...80gr by weight sure seems like a lot of Pyrodex..." , I'm hoping the smiley face means you didn't shoot that load of Pyrodex.

Pyrodex is about the same power per cubic centimeter volume as black powder but it weighs 33 percent less per cc.

A 80 grain (by weight) load of Pyrodex would have the volume and power of 107 grains of regular black powder. :hmm:

Glad to hear that you enjoyed yourself shooting your muzzleloader.
It doesn't take much to get hooked on these guns. :grin:

To Mykeal -- yeah, I figure on shooting it some more before really bothering to sight it in, and you're right about the patches. In my initial excitement I admit I didn't pay attention to them at all.

As far as the powder, no I made sure I knew what I was doing before dropping any charges down the barrel. Because I was an idiot and didn't pick up a powder measure I ended up breaking out some ancient reloading measuring spoons and a scale.

maybe a typo but i think you mentioned using a scale as in weighing your powder.. :surrender: ...if so STOP!!!

black and pyrodex style powders are meassured by volume only. never meassure your charge by a scale for weight. only use a powder meassure that is adjustable to start with and later when you get a load that will stay with the rifle...you may want to make a powder meassure for that rifle outta horn or a piece of brass or some such thing.

but never depend on a scale to come up with a weighed charge for your black powder gun...any of them :surrender:

No type-o, because I didn't have a powder measure on me I had to look up the weight ratio of black powder to Pyrodex RS so that I could measure out the equivalent charges. The scale + this chart http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm helped me get what I needed.