First firing of Flintlock?

Shot my TC Renegade for the first time today ( actually first time for a flintlock for me. Shot great- accurate, fast ignition. However, I noticed that after a few shots, the ramrod did not go as far down the barrel, so I must assume that the ball wasn't seating as deep and close to the breech as it should. Seemed to stop solid with about 1 1/2 - 2" more of ramrod sticking out of barrel than first two shots. Couldn't force it any farther in. Ran a wire brush down the barrel, and wow did it get stuck- could hardly pull it back out. Should I have done more between shots? What's the best way to clean to get fowling and any lead residue out? Wire brush and damp patch? I used round ball and pre-lubricated patches, and FFF powder.

Thanks,
Mike

How much lubrication were on your patches ? Sometimes prelubed patches get sort of dry. If I am shooting more than a few shots, I usually swab the bore with wet patch to remove most of the fouling, and keep it soft. If you do not have cleaning patches with you, spitting on the patch to add moisture can help.

The wire brush getting stuck may not mean anything. If you push the brush in the bore and the wire bristles bend backwards, it can take a lot of force to reverse the brush, even in a clean barrel. The reason is all those bristles have to flex for you to pull the brush back out. The harder you pull, the harder the bristles grab the bore.

mbyoh said:

Shot my TC Renegade for the first time today ( actually first time for a flintlock for me. Shot great- accurate, fast ignition. However, I noticed that after a few shots, the ramrod did not go as far down the barrel, so I must assume that the ball wasn't seating as deep and close to the breech as it should. Seemed to stop solid with about 1 1/2 - 2" more of ramrod sticking out of barrel than first two shots. Couldn't force it any farther in. Ran a wire brush down the barrel, and wow did it get stuck- could hardly pull it back out. Should I have done more between shots? What's the best way to clean to get fowling and any lead residue out? Wire brush and damp patch? I used round ball and pre-lubricated patches, and FFF powder.

Thanks,
Mike

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First what are you using for a Lube?

I myself swab between shots, usually a dampened cleaning rag with Black Solve then a dry patch and the fouling ring is never an issue. I got in a habit of swabbing between shots and always do that. Others do their own thing.

Try increasing the lube. Enough lube will keep the deposits soft and make loading better. On the range I use a wet patch then a dry patch every 4 or 5 shots. Also try changing lube. I have had good service with Track of the Wolfs "Mink Oil", a friend of mine used dawn dishwashing det. for lube. Find what you like and have fun.

mbyoh said:

I noticed that after a few shots, the ramrod did not go as far down the barrel, so I must assume that the ball wasn't seating as deep and close to the breech as it should. Mike

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Sir - DO NOT SHOOT YOUR RIFLE with ANY gap between the ball and the powder.

As Mr H notes on his excellent Youttube vids - what you have then is not a rifle, but a pipe-bomb.

I don't shoot a flintlock, but a couple of target-style percussion rifles - I swab between shots.

tac

something I learned the hard way is never run a dry patch down a fouled barrel. :wink:

Thanks guys.

Tac, thanks for your advise. Makes sense, no gap. I will remember that.

I was using commercial pre-lubed patches that the shop recommended. They also sold me some bore lubricant in a tub (have to check the brand).

So, if I have this straight, after each shot I should run a swab with the barrel lubricant down the barrel, and then follow this with a dry swab. Under normal circumstances,should I ever need to run a wire brush down the barrel at the range?

When cleaning the rifle, after leaving the range, what is recommended. I have read a lot of articles, but have not come up with a consistent method to follow. Should I wire brush the bore first, and then use wet swabs, followed by dry swabs, and finally run a lubricated swab in the bore as the final step?

When first firing the next time, should I first run a lubricated swab in the bore to make sure it has a coating of lubricant?

I appreciate the advice. Cleaning and steps between firing seem to be the most gray area to me. I'm a long time shooter of centerfire and reload my own ammo, so I feel comfortable with the loading and shooting aspects. Its the steps in between I am trying to get down pat.

Mike

Try a different lube for your patched balls. If this dosen't work try swabing between shots with a commercial cleaner or spit. I sometimes put a cleaning patch in my mouth when shooting. After I shoot I run the spit patch down the bore , turn it over and run it down again. This eliminates any fowling in the barrel.

When shooting extended time at the range i just use spit on my patch materal it works great soak the patch in your mouth pull a little off then down the barrel with the ball. Dont try it hunting it can cause a hang or misfire .I am assuming your useing real black powder. The spit patch does not work as well with the subs. Cleaning use warm soapy water Black powder fouling desolves in water. Welcome to the rock lock fellowship :thumbsup:

mbyoh said:

I have read a lot of articles, but have not come up with a consistent method to follow.


Cleaning and steps between firing seem to be the most gray area to me.

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I think this is because there really isn't much strong consensus between black powder shooters. Each person sort of figures out, based on trial-and-error, what works best for them. Most of us use things that are vaguely similar to each other, but each of us also seems to have his/her own specific tweaks.

Some rifles shoot best if swabbed out between every shot. If you're shooting for really serious, competition target accuracy with a real tight ball/patch combination, this will probably be necessary. Other rifles, don't seem to mind firing 6-10 or even 15-20 shots without a swab.

Some of that depends on the type of lube, as mentioned before. Spit is really cheap (free) but it dries out quickly. Any of the millions of combinations of oil and animal fat lubes (both commercial and homemade) will probably work a little better than spit, but they are messier, not free, and sometimes don't work enough better than spit to make it worthwhile. Other times, those fat/oil based lubes are just wonderful.

So, I'd just say do what all of us have done, and have fun experimenting. Make sure to use a decent amount of lube, whatever kind. Try swabbing between shots. Try shooting longer strings with different lubes. See what you like best.

A couple other quick thoughts. I don't recall where you're located, but fouling reacts with humidity and temperature. The colder or drier it is, the faster it hardens. So you may have more problems in the winter (or if you live in a desert) than in the summer in a humid place. Adjust accordingly.

You can do pretty much anything to clean your barrel, as long as you get it clean. People use:
hot water
cold water
soapy water
plain water
windshield wiper fluid
mixtures of alcohol and other chemicals
commercial solvents
homemade solvents
I think I've heard of people using gasoline or kerosene (I'm not sure I'd do that, though).
I even heard of one guy who took the barrel off his rifle and took it into the shower with him.

BP fouling will come off with almost any liquid. I like to plug the touchhole and let an ounce or two sit in the breech for a few minutes to loosen up the worst spots, then run a brush for 8-10 strokes. Then remove the plug, pour out the cleaner, and start running dry patches until they come out clean and dry. Make sure you get that chamber and touch-hole clean. Usually the pressure from pushing a tight-fitting patch down the barrel will do the job, but you may need a pipe cleaner or q-tip from time to time.

It's not hard, just a little messy. One thing I learned is this stuff is a lot more fun if you enjoy the stuff like the cleaning process. So, have fun with it and good luck.

Great post :hatsoff:

Turn the bore brush in the same direction as the curve of the grooves, as you reverse the direction of the rod and begin pulling the brush out. The Bristles will turn with the twist of the RR, and will easily reverse direction if you turn with the groove direction.( Usually, Clockwise) Do NOT turn the rod so that the rod unscrews from the Brush!

I shoot T/C renegades--use Hoppe's black powder sovent and lube on your patch above 23 degrees--use Stumpy's moose snot below 23 degrees or bear fat bees wax blend. You will be able to shoot all day with out swabbing...this is my experiance...good luck. to clean I use a hot tap water -dawn dish soap on a thin patch over a bronze brush..rinse with hot tap water- dry -oil done.

congrats on the entry into the wonderful world of rockbanging! there is no cure for this addiction (nor should there be).

the advice regarding not firing a ball which isn't fully seated is very good, and you should follow it. if the load doesn't seat for any reason, pull the ball, clear the barrel, and then figure out what's going wrong before you shoot again.

as regards the ball/patch/load combination, this is something to which each rifle must be individually tuned. for best result as far as accuracy, i would recommend you get Dutch Schoultz' monograph on muzzleloading accuracy- it will be the best twenty bucks you've spent in a long time (especially when you could the cost of powder burnt and lead launched if you try to figure it out for yourself, and get frustrated, and 'chase your own tail 'round and 'round). i swab between shots with a commercial lube, and i'm using Track of the Wolf's Mink Oil as a patch lube (but i will try to get a batch of moose snot made up this summer and try that as well).

i do swab between each shot, mostly because i'm using a fairly tight ball/patch combination. some folks do, some don't: depends on the shoot er (and the rifle; i have one rifle which will shoot ten or twelve shots without wiping between shots, the rifle next to it in the rack? no way- can't even load shot number three).

some folks also use a bit of scrap leather soaked in Ballistol, or a wad of hard felt soaked in Ballistol or some similar lube.

your Renegade has a hooked breechplug, so if you take out the ramrod and drift out the wedge key, the barrel will lift right out of the stock. i clean mine in warm (not hot) soapy water by simply pulling the breech end of the barrel in a plastic coffee can about three quarters full of water & dishsoap) and then running a patch down the barrel. you should see bubbles comming out of the touch hole. pull the ramrod up, and the patch will draw the water through the touch hole and up into the barrel, push the ramrod back down, and you'll see funky water come squirting out of the hole. repeat until the water is clear, then dry out the bore and use a preservative to prevent rust.

another feature of this particular rifle is the 'patent breech.' your barrel(i assume it's a .50 calibre) has about half to three quarters of an inch of narrower space (about twenty five calibre) and it's this narrow bit into which the touch hole actually vents. this sounds confusing- i can't send you a cross sectional drawing, but if you Google up "Nock Patent Breech" you should be able to find one and it will be clear. it is said that this design is 'the cat's meow,' but i haven't seen a substantial difference bewteen this and a plain old flat breech. don't see any harm, just don't see much of an advantage, either. it comes with the barrel, so don't worry about it- it whould work fine as long as you keep it reasonably clean.

there. that's the tirade du jour, now get to the range and make good smoke!

When I got started shooting a long time ago, I was told that I needed to toss the ramrod down the barrel hard until it bounced out. The idea is that the powder gets compacted the same amount every time. Once everything gets packed tight the ramrod will bounce out of the barrel. Before it is packed tight it just thuds and sits there.

Now some people will say that this is a bad thing because it deforms the ball, well be that as it may. However, I absolutely guarantee that if you do it you will not have a gap between the ball and powder.

I still load that way most of the time and on those days that the humidity makes the powder form a crust about 3 or 4 inches from the breech, it is the only way that I know that I can keep shooting safely without having to stop and swab out the barrel.

Many Klatch

I really don't think "bouncing" your ramrod does anything to the ball; it would take some major smackdown to deform a lead ball in the bore. I agree it can help make sure there's no space between ball and powder. It may uniform the load as well.

mbyoh said:

Ran a wire brush down the barrel, and wow did it get stuck- could hardly pull it back out. Should I have done more between shots?

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You're lucky you got the brush back out. Years ago I got one jambed in my Renegade and it pulled off the threaded stub. I had to remove the breech (not an easy job).

Next time use a damp spit patch between shots when it starts to "pack-up". Some lubes let you go 10 shots between wipes while others require a damp wipe between each shot.

Learned that lesson early on. Also knew that unless the ball got seated on the powder, I wasn't going to shoot the rifle. Ended up pulling a load rather than risk my face.

So, since I was shooting a muzzleloader and not an AR15, I knew I wasn't in a hurry for the second and subsequent shots. Now - and this is just me - I wipe my bore with a spit patch after every shot. To save on patches, I dry with a patch cut from a paper towel. Then I reload and fire. I never have a crud ring and it makes for a relaxing day at the range.

I started wiping every 3rd or 4th shot, but found out with the small bores, I was pushing crud down into the flash channel and getting misfires unless I used a pick or fired a cap.

Now, I wipe after every shot, enjoy the afternoon and load with ease.

Dan

Try cleaning the bore with alcohol to remove any oily residue and then do your normal lubed or spit patch. This should reduce the fowling problem. :idunno:
Dusty :wink:

yep that just about sums it up on the different way folks clean their flintlocks.do what works for you.Forget everything else.