musket caps on percussion rifle??

I need some help here. I have a customer that really wants to use a musket cap (says they are easier to handle than regular #11 caps) on a T/C Hawkins and a Renegade rifle (50 cal's).
He is asking that I bend one of the hammers to so accomadate this desired change.

Does anyone know of ANY dangers to doing this?

My gut reaction is that the larger cap is not going to generate any excess pressure or the like, but I am concerned with the larger cap having a higher probabilty of sending cap pieces flying on firing. Protective glasses and usual safety practices given...should I be concerned here?

when i was shooting percussion rifles i converted them to shoot musket caps.only problem i ever had was with my Lyman GPR,the coilspring lock was'nt strong enough to set them off.never had any problem wiyh cap shrapnel.

I have used musket nipples on two Renegades and a CVA Big Bore Mountain rifle. I know the argument against doing so but I never experience any schrapnel{sp?} problems and saw vastly improved ignition, read; zero failures. I did so with out any change to the lock or hammer.

John

The only change I can think of that would be necessary is the changing of the nipple to a musket size. I had a repro Sharps .54 that was kinda finicky about setting off the powder charge, just changed out the nipple and used musket caps and problem solved. Emery

rick landes said:

I need some help here. I have a customer that really wants to use a musket cap (says they are easier to handle than regular #11 caps) on a T/C Hawkins and a Renegade rifle (50 cal's).
He is asking that I bend one of the hammers to so accomadate this desired change.

Does anyone know of ANY dangers to doing this?

My gut reaction is that the larger cap is not going to generate any excess pressure or the like, but I am concerned with the larger cap having a higher probabilty of sending cap pieces flying on firing. Protective glasses and usual safety practices given...should I be concerned here?

Click to expand...

Hello from Germany,

tell your customer that this change won't have any advantages becuase the musket caps are as strong as the #11 magnum caps. He can use them without any change!

Regards

Kirrmeister

Dirk, that is probably true, but I think the reason for changing was for easier handling. As we grow older, sometimes our fingers aren't as nimble as they used to be, arthritis sets in, joints stiffen, etc.

Oh, from this point of view you are right! :thumbsup:

Regards

Kirrmeister

I actually considered switching to musket caps some years back for that same reason. The tiny #11s are fumbly. After seeing the accuracy loss from using magnum caps, I reconsidered though. You might mention that to your customer. He'll have to go through the load development process again and his groups are probably going to be larger than before no matter what.

The actual cap is stronger than civilian style caps and in my experience tend to hold together. You may find that you need to open up the hammer face to accomodate the larger musket cap. Old and cold fingers definitely can cope more easily with the larger caps.

I use musket caps on all of my chunk guns, underhammer as well as conventional locks, as well as on my smooth bores. Easier to handle, yes. Positive ignition, yes. Easy to convert to, yes.
Mark

I don't think you will encounter any problems in making this change. I don't understand the need for bending the hammer. I made this change to my Pedersoli 12 ga. SxS by simply buying a set of musket cap nipples that had the same thread as the #11 cap nipples that were on the gun. The hammers lined up perfectly with the new nipples with no bending needed. The shotgun shot the same as it did with the #11 caps and I had no problems with flying debris. The reason for the change was that I had a BUNCH of musket caps and nothing to use them on. I just wanted to use up all of those musket caps and the shotgun was the first gun that I grabbed. That was several years ago and I am still happily shooting up those musket caps. When I finally take the dirt nap, my wife will probably pass the rest of the musket caps on to my son along with the shotgun.

If bending the hammer is needed I recommend removing it from the tumbler first.
The little shaft on the tumbler is usually hardened just like the tumbler is and it can be brittle.
The fairly large force needed to bend the hammer if it is being bent cold can cause the tumbler shaft to break.
If the hammer is installed on the lock and it is heated to a red hot temperature that high heat can soften the tumblers hardness.

As for handling the large Musket caps, yes, its easier but before ordering the part to do it ask your customer if he/she has ever used a "capper".
They remove the need to fumble with the tiny #11 caps with cold or gloved fingers.

If the customer decides to try the capper, buy a good brand like Ted Cash or equal.
There are some cappers that are pretty crappy for sale and I think these cheap ones are more trouble than their worth.

Rick,
Your customers troubles with handling the small caps could be eliminated with a riflemans capper like that made by Ted cash,,see link http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(y...catId=1&subId=1&styleId=1&partNum=CAPPER-TC-B

For filling the capper, just put it on a table, open the lid then pour in the caps from the tin,,gentle shaking or tapping the side will make most of the caps tip right side up. :wink:
Point it down, press the lever, and one cap will drop, release the lever and the cap is held in place..They work great! :thumbsup:

A problem with the no.11 caps is removing them from the nipple, should you need to without discharging the muzzle loader (walking along a surface road, after legal shooting hours, crossing a stream or fence)and doing it while the outside temperature may be -10 F or colder, musket caps no problem.

I also like the fact that I almost never experience the shrapnel effect with a musket cap, not the case with the no.11 and as an aside, drop a musket cap in the house or vehicle and it is easy to find.

I have never had any trouble removing a #11 unfired cap from a nipple. Just cock the hammer back out of the way, and lift the cap up with your thumb and index finger. Hold onto until you cross the road, or fence, or whatever. Put it back on the nipple when you are " legal " again.

If you have allowed your nipple to be peened down, SHAME on you! Then, you may need needle nose pliers, or a pen knife( Its a lousy thing to do to the sharpened edge of any knife, but use what you have), to pick them off. But, they should be difficult to put ON the nipple, too, which should be your First Clue that you need to be replacing that nipple!

If you are trying to use #10 caps on a #11 nipple, the problem will be obvious long before you find yourself needing to remove the cap in the field. As a habit, I take a spare nipple with me whenever I am on a buying spree for caps. I test them right there in front of the dealer, before any money is exchanged. I don't trust factories to box the correct size percussion caps in the properly marked boxes. I realize that dealers buy caps in 10,000 lots, and can't be expected to inspect every case of caps to make sure they are the correct ones. I ran into this problem many years ago, with caps made overseas- that was what was available-- and it cured me of ever believing what is on the box.

Paul, why "Shame on You" for pinching a cap on the nipple. Makes them stay on. If you need to take it off a knife blade and your thumb work wonders, if you loose one cap while on a days hunt, whats the difference. Granted, they cost more than a cent each now, but still, why loose more of them while still hunting?

I second the why "Shame on You" I stalk hunt, moving thru forest and mixed bush and swamp area's and I always pinch the cap,be it no.11 or Musket, because experience has shown me that caps can get plucked off a nipple otherwise and I have went in to an area when temperatures have been just above zero and left early enough to hunt on my way out and had it be well below zero (-20, -30 F), there is no way, I am taking off a glove to try and remove a teeny tiny cap,when I can just pluck it off by using the wings on a top hat cap, even after squeezing it.

As far as having a peened nipple, what an assumption to make and a conclusion to jump too.

Using a knife or pair of pliers to remove a cap? You're kidding right? awkwardly manipulate a loaded firearm while you introduce a potential spark (knife) or crush source (pliers) to a cap containing an explosive charge, thanks I will discharge the rifle, even if past legal hours to discharge a weapon.

You guys need to re-read it..the shame is for allowing the nippled to be "peened" aka; dry firing,,a bunch. :v

necchi said:

You guys need to re-read it..the shame is for allowing the nippled to be "peened" aka; dry firing,,a bunch. :v

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Or, just a plain old worn out nipple. BTDT . . . :v

The " Shame " is for going out with a badly worn nipple- not pinching a cap! What post were you reading????

The older guys in my club used to really get after the younger guys who continued to shoot worn nipples, and then be constantly complaining about misfires, or difficulties removing the spent caps etc. This was before I owned a rifle of any kind, and was Learning from others what made a good gun, and what didn't. A lot of the " old-timers" had extra nipples in their range boxes, and would help the new guys out by replacing their nipples, and charging them. The new guys were always so shocked that all their misfires, and loading and cleaning problems seemed to vanish! No more alibi for a missed shot, either! :shocked2: :nono:

When I finally bought a rifle, I stocked up on replacement nipples, but also put an India stone and a small file in my range box, to use to file the bulges off the nipples of these other guys, when their guns used a metric size thread, and all I had was my American sized threaded nipples.