perkins double??

have any of you heard of a perkins double barrel. i have somone offering me one, but i cannot see the gun. what do they look like, are they well made, any reasons why they cant still be shootable?

just need to know so i can tell this guy something.

duke21

well, i finally had the oppurtunity to see the perkins double barrel. its far from perfect , but not completely dead either. needs a real good cleaning,, missing a wedge and the left hammer doesnt want to stay locked back, other than that , i think this is a neat old gun. it has iron trigger guard, and buttplate, as well as some worn checkering.

now for the real kicker. i posted here a few months ago trying to figure out the brand of a double muzzleloader that was missing its locks. well guess what, the lockplates on this perkins match up with the other gun pretty darned good. the iron furniture also is of similar design as the other gun. about the biggest difference i can see so far is the overall width across the breach end of both barrels differs by about a 1/4" or so.

maybe now with some luck , i can fab the missing lockplates and other pieces using this newer gun for pattern guidance.

gosh i hope i am onto something.

duke21

Duke,
I hate to reply to tell a guy that I know nothing about his gun. So I didn't. Even so I hate to have a guy be seemingly ignored.
I am glad you got to see the gun and have made this discovery about the older gun. Keep us posted about your progress. I like following an interesting investigtion.
volatpluvia

vola,

thanks for the feedback, i was beginning to think i was blacklisted or worse. dont know why am so excited about these old doubles, but i am. at least now i have something to work off of for templates for the lock assemblies on the gun that is missing parts. the incomplete gun belonged to a good friends dad. he had taken the locks off to clean them and get them working, somehow his wife decided he didnt need them anymore. he gave me the remainder with the hopes i would get the old family gun back together again. i want to get it together to show him i appreciate the gift.


thanks again for the reply.

i plan on doing some cleaning on the new find in next couple days and see what i really have.

duke21

Duke, I was gonna reply earlier but I had to go thru my records first. I did have a Perkins double but sold it a few years ago. Mine was a 10 ga. and I never did shoot it. You asked if you could shoot yours and the answer is yes. However the next question is can you safely shoot it? That depends on the condition of the gun and it should always be checked by someone well versed in muzzleloaders. Cast steel barrels are a little safer and damascus barrels should always be suspect. That is not to say they are unsafe, but it takes an expert to safely designate one as a safe shooter. I have had some that I shot with complete trust that they were safe; that is not the norm. These guns are over 150 years old and you don't know their history, how they were cared for. Be safe!

mazo,

i think we are on the same page. sure i would love to make shooters out of both of these, but realiztically right now the newest one has the most hope. when the time comes to actually decide if shooting it has a future, i will go through a series of proof testing with the gun straped to an anvil, tree stump, something and the trigger will be pulled several feet away with a string or? i have no intentions on having a fully loaded gun on my shoulder and shooting it for the first time in who knows how long. also, i have a local smith who will inspect the gun before i go to the proof testing stage. even if we get past all this, i realize that i will have to settle for reduced black powder only loads. i have no intention of going to the goose pond with magnum type loads on this old boy.
even though i love this things, i would prefer to live to see another day, if you know what i mean.

thanks for the feedback. i am really beginning to think the older of the two is a 10ga. its bore is just a couple 32nds larger than the other, but the breach end is quite a bit larger.

thanks ,

duke21

I am shooting a shotgun that was made about 100 years ago. Its was made with cold roll steel, and has an imitation " Twist Finish"< but not a Damascus Barrel. Its was made in Europe, for sale through hardware stores here. Its chambers are for the European 2 9/16" cartridges, rather than our standard 2 3/4" cartridges. I have relieved the throats to allow a 2 3/4" shell to function properly.

However, I have never put anything stronger than a light 2 3/4 Dram equivalent shell through the barrels. Pressure on these 12 gauge shells is very low- in the 4,000 ft lbs range. The gun handles they quite well, and I am able to shoot my grandfather's shotgun instead of it gathering dust in some closet, or parking on a wall.

PLEASE, DO NOT "PROOF " THESE BARRELS ON YOUR GUN WITH ANY KIND OF STRONG LOAD! Remember, the length of the chamber has to accomodate both the length of the shell when it is loaded and roll crimped, as well as fit the shell when the cartridge is fired, and opened to its full length. The front of the shell that is crimped has to open up AND get out of the way of the shot charge in order to move out of the chamber and into the barrel, without causing excessive chamber pressure.

As with any person who is old, your gun deserves respect just for surviving so long, and kindness in how it is used. Perhaps the biggest work- out I have given my old shotgun is shooting a round of sporting clays with it. I don't do that often. It is a joy to bust clays, however, with such an old gun. :grin: :thumbsup:

Paul, your admonishments and advice are duly noted and appreciated. The guns Duke and I are talking about are ML shotguns, at least mine was. Your advice applies to these guns as well as breechloaders. Thanks. Emery

If you refer to the articles on ML shotguns on Bob Spenser's website, Black Powder Notebook
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html

for loads for these guns. Stick to the lighter loads.

paul and mazo,

thanks so much for your continued interest and support. yes my gun is ML as well. i went through a similar issue months ago with a belgian breach loading cartridge gun. after proof testing and tightening some fits up, it became a pretty fun little shooter. i would love nothing more than to be able to bring one of these back to life, but safety is a primary concern. i have survived divorce, business fire, loss of so called friends, auto wrecks, and cancer, i have no intentions in taking unnessary chances with an old gun. if it is in the cards to be a shooter, it will have to progress slowly and safely to the end.

again, i appreciate your thoughts and support.

keep your powder dry and your shot in the air.

duke21