Advice on Stupid Mistake

Ok I know I am really opening myself up on this one, but there is a safety question behind this that I need some advice on.

During a recent trip to the shooting range I was breaking in my new barrel for a Lyman GP Hunter in .54 cal. Since I was just trying to get lead through the bore I downloaded to 75 grains of Pyrodex (from my normal 90 grain hunting load).

The folks next to me got interested in my rifle so they started asking alot of questions. Normally I ignore folks during the loading process for this very reason, but this time I indulged for the sake of winning a new traditionalist. During one of these questioning episodes I noticed that when I fired the rifle it barely recoiled and the shot was REALLY low.

Figuring that I just had some fouling interference or something I cleaned the bore real well then shot a number of flawless shots after it. A few shots later the folks asked more questions and the same thing happened again. On the third time I noticed that I almost capped the nipple before ramming the conical all the way home. At this point I realized my mistake, I believe that I short started the projectile but forgot to ram it home before firing the rifle.

I checked the barrel REALLY carefully and couldn't see any bulges or cracking, then I pushed a conical down a clean bore to make sure I didn't notice any "easy" spots. Basically looking for any preceptable expansion in the barrel. All looked and felt ok.

Has anyone ever had this happen to them? I believe the rifle is still safe to shoot for a number of reasons that I won't go into now, but you guys are the smartest muzzleloaders I know so I am interested in your opinions.

I realize this is a REALLY stupid mistake and should have known better than to talk to folks about something I am passionate about while loading - so lesson learned. But I want to know if you'd keep shooting the same barrel or discontinue its' use.

Thanks for your advice!

Don't know but I would think you would notice a walnut or even a slight bulge in the barrel. They say to run your finger down the outside. Supposedly works on shotguns. I take it you are saying you just seated the round with a short starter, not left it short of the load?

Really good question. I wonder if you can take the barrel off and lay it on a a flat surface to see if it lays flat or not. I'm interested in what others come up with.

Good luck. :thumbsup:

Even a buldge might not mean the rifle is unsafe. If there are no loose spots in the bore and it shoots good, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I'm constantly getting out of order doing what you just described. Although I've never fired a short started round, I've shot my ramrod once.

I use the following to keep me from getting out of order........

I leave my cleaning rod in the barrel when I'm done shooting, indicating a empty barrel.

I leave my powder measure (funnel type) setting in the barrel until I'm ready to short start a ball. (it indicates a powder charge is waiting in the barrel)

I leave the ball starter in the barrel until I pull it out and ram the ball home with the ram rod (this indicates a short started ball)

I mark my ramrod with a mark indicating and empty barrel.

If I stop to talk during any phase of loading, I have these indications to keep me on track. Worse comes to worse, use a Co2 ball discharger and start over.

I hope that helps. It keeps me from blowing myself up.

By the way, I'm not a gunsmith or expert but if you've been shooting your rifle, it's probably safe to keep shooting it. You'ld think if it was going to blow up, it would have already. If you want to be safe, replace the barrel. It's probably only about $160 to get your sanity back.

Regards
Wounded Knee

Usually the only problems with shooting a short started ball is an acute case of embarrasment and a real cruddy barrel.

The only time I've seen a buldged barrel was on a jaeger with a very radical swamp. The was not a short started ball it was about halfway down the barrel. Don't know how the guy got in that condition but it did produce a noticable bulge in the thin part of the barrel. The only thing I can think of is that he had the ball on a harmonic area and the forward wave and back wave combined to buldge the barrel.

Take it to a local gunsmith and have him check it out. Or you could get a caliper measure and mic the barrel. Oh and by the way we all have done stupid things. Thanks for sharing. That how we learn.

Styr I would think you could mike the barrel to check it,now if it is swelled very much you should be able to tell with the mike. It sounds ok by what you have said. Dilly

I belive with the 32" barrel and just short started you shouldnt have any problem BUT it never hurts to have it ckd. Most things go wrong when your ball/con is sitting right above the powder. I leave my rod in so I know its Loaded. More than once Ive got to talking to someone about what Im shooting and have forgot to put any bullet in at all. :redface: Fred :hatsoff:

Maybe this is not PC but ... I take a small flashlight with me. It's part of my Possible Bag (which is a None PC Iraqi Gas Mask Bag). If I have any doubts about the load condition of my rifle I shine my flashlight down the barrel to see what is what.

Made the same stupid mistake myself, Styr, and am still kicking myself for it. Ruined the best shooting conical barrel I'd ever come across. The gun was a .50 TC Black Mountain Magnum and the load was a conical (350 Maxi Hunter, I believe) over 90 gr. of Pyrodex. Compared to what the gun is rated for, the load was relatively light. Used the short starter, but never rammed it home.

The result was a walnut inside the barrel; but nothing noticeable outside. I noticed the lack of recoil; and from that point on the accuracy went to pot. Did not recognize the damage until I cleaned it. From about 4" to 6" inside the muzzle, the patch pushed real easy, almost no resistance.

Since then, I've tried to get away from using the short starter. One problem, where I'm concerned, is that once the ball is out of sight, it's out of mind. The starter pushes it out of sight, but I still have to remember to grab the rod and ram it home. I now try to do my short starting with the ramrod, if possible. Once the rod's in my hand, I seem able to remember what to do with it.

But the REAL problem, as in your case, was lack of attention and failure to maintain concentration. Best remedy for that is to stop shooting when the distraction can't be avoided.
FWIW
Bob

I would have it checked by a gunsmith, if it makes you feel better, but I think ramming a snug-fitting patched ball or two down the barrel would show where any swelling of the bore had occurred. The patched ball will move down noticably easier if the hole it's being pushed through has expanded in size. If this doesn't happen and there isn't any detectable swelling on the outside, I'd consider it to be all right, myself. That's just what I would do, though. I recommend you doing what makes you feel safe, not settling for what I or anyone else suggests.

Those barrels have all that extra metal just to resist what happened here. I would not worry about it. That thight conical that went down without producing any loose spots is a good enough examination to eliminate bulges as a possible consequence of your mistake. It may just ben that the load you were using, and the length of the barrel between the chamber, and where the ball was seated close to the muzzle reduced the pressure enough to do no damage to the barrel.

Make a habit of always running your ramrod down the barrel to check to see that you are loaded to your mark, and that you have put anything down it at all! when you interrupt your loading sequence to talk to someone. As you get more experienced, you will develope a routine where you place the various components in certain places or order, so that you have that reference to tell where you stopped the sequence when you were interrupted. Our club asks members not to talk to other member when they are loading their guns, and we have our Range officers police this as a safety issue. A gentle word as a reminder is usually all that is needed. Since we often rotate who is Range Officer for the day, hour, or every relay, we are all looking out for each other, and the club, when we ask someone not to talk to another shooter when he is loading. Same thing goes with smoking near the firing line, or on it, capping a gun before you step to the line, etc.

Friend of mine did this with a TC and a ball.You couldn't see a rib on the outside of the barrel but he did start to notice that after a few shots there was a rough spot to get over when loading.I dropped my bore light down a clean barrel and there it was.A ringed barrel.Had a nice shadow just at the end where the ball started ended.

Did the same thing a few weeks ago. Got off easy. No ring. My Mortimer has a fairly beefy barrel and I was only using a target roundball load. I used a laser pointer to inspect the barrel and couldn't find anything like a shadow. Whew! Shoots as always;great. :hatsoff:

IMO, if the resistance felt constant while you were ramming the subsequent loads you didn't damage the barrel.

Although most straight muzzleloader barrels are heavy enough to take this kind of occurance I have owned a gun with a ringed barrel and there was no outward evidence that the condition existed. No bump, nothing I could see. That's why I bought it.
At the range, I noticed the "loose spot" about half way down while loading it. I figured "well maybe I didn't get tooken. I was wrong. It had the worst accuracy I've ever seen. I was doing well to hold the shots on a 12 X 12 piece of paper at 25 yards.

This is why I refuse to buy a muzzleloader no matter how good it looks without first running a tight fitting patch down the bore to see if the barrel has been ringed.

This is in reply to everyone who posted. First of all, thank you :bow: for your generous and knowledgeable information. I really appreciate it.

I will check tonight to see if I can detect a ring in the barrel. Given that I was able to hold about a 5" group offhand at 100 yards after the incident I think the barrel is still shooting better than I can, but it is still worth the check.

I typically have my regimen for loading that is similar to what many of you folks said, but as with life when you depart from tried and true you run into issues. Next time I will make sure to not talk during loading, and remind others of the same.

I'll let you all know what I find in the barrel as far as the ring.

Thanks again,

Drop in bore lights are about $10 and mine more than paid for itself.Wish I could find one to fit a 36 or 32.

410-er:

Do you know where I can find a drop in bore light?

Thanks,

Kirk

Try[url] www.Midwayusa.com[/url] and type in "bore light" in the search box. I have the CVA drop in light. Works great in anything .40 cal or larger. Just don't run it through the washer in your pants pocket. Don't ask.

You can also try Wally-World, Sportsmans Warehouse, Bass Pro, Cabelas & etc.