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If you want the very best and most authentic kit, it is Don Stith's.

Buying else where is settling for less.

Need to get one before it is too late.
I do agree with you @FishDFly. Don was a member of the Gemmer Muzzle Loading Gun Club in St. Louis. Then he moved east. We still haven't taken his name from the membership rolls.

As I recall from a lot of discussions, there are a lot of "authentic" Hawken stamps out there. Some of them may have the crooked "s".

Don did mentor Bob Browner and Bob is quite capable of making an exceptional Sam Hawken rifle. Bob doesn't make kits. From what I understand, Don is not in the best of health so a kit from Don may not be on the market. That's why I didn't mention Don.

Don's kit and the original Hawken shop kit were patterned from an original Sam Hawken rifle. Actually I don't think any two Hawken rifles are alike, they just look like a Hawken Plains Rifle. Now we have to quibble on manufacturing processes and expediencies that come in this day and age.
 
Our own member 'Herb' has build unbelievable copies of most of the extant copies. He's a 'go to the museum, and engage the curator, take photos and measurements' kind of guy. He's the equal of Don IMO.
 
"From what I understand, Don is not in the best of health so a kit from Don may not be on the market."

Was not going to mention that, dislike spreading things if not 100% accurate.

Don, his wife and my wife worked together.
 
Yep, She Who Must Be Obeyed, "SWMBO" is the one I'm familiar with. But sometimes I call her "sir".
Have to be careful to keep this from happening.
 
Looks like my Ithaca!
My second covid build, also a Tracksā€™ Bridger.
Either their kits are getting better or I got lucky.
Still not as accurate as HawkenShop or DonStith
48C1AF6C-DF6D-4664-9570-3FD0BC53E434.jpeg
 
Back to the original question...

Jim, have you selected a kit yet? I don't think you'll go wrong with any of the "Big Three" that were suggested: Hawken Shop, Don Stith, or Track of the Wolf Bridger or Carson.

One thought, my opinion, is that a lot of guys try very hard to get a rifle looking like a Hawken on the outside, but they don't necessarily devote a lot of thought to the barrel. The original Hawkens were renowned for accuracy and "shootability," and their barrels were responsible for that reputation. If it were me, I would decide on the general configuration of the rifle I wanted (J&S versus S. Hawken, full stock versus half stock, etc.), then think about what I would want in a barrel, and then select a kit (or custom builder) to end up with the rifle I wanted.

With all that said, I believe the original Hawken shop made both custom guns and rifles built to a more or less standard pattern. It would have been possible for someone to walk into the shop and buy one off the rack. I seem to recall that records from some of the fur companies indicate some Hawken rifles were taken up the Missouri for sale "in the mountains," and the famous "Kephart Hawken" was purchased from Albright's hardware store in (I think) 1895... That rifle was "new old stock," having been built over thirty years before, and remaining unsold for all that time. The point being that a straightforward build of any of those high-quality kits mentioned above would likely produce a fine and very "typical" Hawken.

Lots of decisions because you have a lot of options. Good luck with it, brother!

Notchy Bob
 
Sixty years to deceased wife Gloria [Fragrant Flower] ā€¦ nine years in November to Betty [Li'l Sparrow] I got it immediately ā€¦ CEO, Chief of Staff, Boss, yes ma'm ā€¦ Polecat
 
A friend always refers to his as The War Department... another calls his The Old Lady... after 26 years I still call mine My Wife.

As I gaze across this room I sit in I count 13 guns, 9 bought this year. She does not say a word.

I always tell my friends I have to be careful what I ask for... if I told her I'd like a Maserati there'd be one in the driveway in a few days.
And NO, we can't afford it.

I think it'd be nice to have a Hawken full stock... but I won't tell my wife.... yet.
 
Here's the latest from upstairs . . . šŸ˜Ž

Leaning hard toward a Don Stith kit.

I've been reading from the Forum and am a little overwhelmed. In a good way.
Great information and insight. Thanks to all.
Notchy Bob, you make sense.

Will keep you posted.

Jim in La Luz
 
One thought, my opinion, is that a lot of guys try very hard to get a rifle looking like a Hawken on the outside, but they don't necessarily devote a lot of thought to the barrel. The original Hawkens were renowned for accuracy and "shootability," and their barrels were responsible for that reputation. If it were me, I would decide on the general configuration of the rifle I wanted (J&S versus S. Hawken, full stock versus half stock, etc.), then think about what I would want in a barrel

Notchy makes a good point--or a couple of 'em.

The three sources of kits that have been discussed will likely come with distinctly different barrels. I don't know who The Hawken Shop is buying their barrels from, but they describe them as 1-1/8" to 1" tapered barrel with 1:48 twist. Don Stith has used a number of different barrel manufactures, but likely is providing his kits now with Rice barrels. In .50 and .54 caliber, they will be 1:66 twist. The last time I looked, Track was including Colerain barrels in 1:56 twist or Rice in 1:66 twist.

Herb posted some interesting load experiments in a recent thread, The Horace Kephart Hawken, where he used his Bridger copy that has a 1:48 twist like the originals. He showed that that barrel with that twist could handle anything from 42 grs of GOEX 2F up to 210 grs of GOEX 2F with reasonable accuracy.

I too would be interested in which kit Jim Wag is leaning.

Don Stith offers at least six different Hawken kits--a full stock J&S Hawken, a half stock J&S Hawken, a generic half stock S. Hawken, a Kit Carson Hawken, and a couple different configurations of Sam Hawken squirrel rifles. That's a lot to choose from. People make a big deal about the authenticity of Stith's kits, but he, like most producers of kits, has had to make some compromises. Except for the Kit Carson kit, none of the others are copied exactly from an original rifle. In addition, the only J&S breech commercially available is the Griffith Tool Co. breech from The Hawken Shop and it comes in 1" only. For 1-1/8" barrels, Stith provides the Sam Hawken breech that Track uses on their Bridger kit. I do like the trigger guard that Stith provides for his J&S rifles. He is the only one with a correct J&S trigger guard. I guess what I am saying is that Stith's S. Hawken rifles are more correct than his J&S rifles because of the breech snail.

The Hawken Shop kit uses castings that Art Ressel made from a couple of original Hawken rifles in his collection when he owned the company. Technically, I would say their kit is the most authentic. I have a couple of rifles made from The Hawken Shop kits when Art Ressel owned it. One was custom built by Keith Neubauer who was well known in his day for his restoration work and had access to Ressel's originals. It is without a doubt, the best contemporary S. Hawken rifle I've seen. The other kit rifle is good, but it was assembled by an amateur not a professional. The draw back to the current Hawken Shop kit is its price, being a few hundred more than Stith's and Track's kits. Also, I know of a person that received one last year that had a lock that wasn't assembled correctly. I don't know if he got it resolved or not.

As far as Track of the Wolf is concerned, I would only consider their Jim Bridger kit, pictures of which have been posted in this thread. Track's Kit Carson Hawken kit is not authentic. Their Bridger kit is basically the same as the late S. Hawken rifle that GRRW was making from 1977 to when they closed in 1980. It is not an exact copy of the original Bridger Hawken owned by MHS because the contract GRRW had with MHS forbid them from selling an exact copy. The changes are minor dimensional differences in length of barrel, length of forearm, spacing of barrel keys, and the round inside corner of butt plate. That said, Track's Bridger kit is very representative of the rifles Sam was making in the mid-1850's and essentially the same pattern that GRRW was making. The only knock I have for the TOTW Bridger kit is that the standard trigger guard isn't exactly right. It comes with TG-HAWK-L-I . A more correct trigger guard is TG-HAWK-H-I.

Another consideration is weight. Unless you are young and strong, I would stay away from an 1-1/8" straight octagon barrel. Herb says his Bridger copy "with a 33 1/8 inch .54 caliber 1 1/8 inch barrel of one in 48 inch twist weighs 11 1/4 pounds." I have a couple GRRW rifles with 1-1/8" x 36" barrels that weigh 12.5 pounds on my scales. For someone older than 60, like myself, that is too heavy for anything other than bench shooting.

Don Stith offers his full stock J&S Hawken with a 1" to 7/8" taper 36" long barrel. That is a good choice for a rifle intended to be shot off-hand or hunted with. An even lighter choice is his squirrel rifle "options allow you to upgrade to a light Plains rifle." He lists a 15/16" to 7/8" tapered barrel option that would be great in the half stock, two-key light Plains rifle upgrade in .50 or .54 caliber. Sam Hawken actually made such rifles. Just something to consider if you intend to carry a rifle much while hunting.
 

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