Jag and Rod stuck in barrel

mooman76 said:

I'm thinking tapered bore. Is there allot of free space at the muzzle when you insert the jag?

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No, none at all. It's not a tight fit but there's no room to spare really

@JohannesKepler, you really need to get a digital caliper to do some measurements. Calipers are cheap enough, generally less than $25. Digital calipers have a direct readout so you don't have the calculation issues associated with Vernier calipers. I need to have focus when I use my Vernier set, but I never need to replace batteries.

I seem to recall that you have a Loyalist Arms Brown Bess. I have found that most of them run loose on bore size. Mine actually has a slight choke. I would have expected the bore to get a bit bigger about 6" down the bore.

Grenadier1758 said:

@JohannesKepler, you really need to get a digital caliper to do some measurements. Calipers are cheap enough, generally less than $25. Digital calipers have a direct readout so you don't have the calculation issues associated with Vernier calipers. I need to have focus when I use my Vernier set, but I never need to replace batteries.

I seem to recall that you have a Loyalist Arms Brown Bess. I have found that most of them run loose on bore size. Mine actually has a slight choke. I would have expected the bore to get a bit bigger about 6" down the bore.

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That's probably a good idea. Are they able to measure far down the bore too?

Yeah it's a Loyalist Bess. Perhaps mine may just have a reverse choke? Gets smaller further down? Either way, I think I will just stick to using a worm instead of the jag. That definitely won't get stuck and if it worked back in the day it'll still get the job done now.

The digital calipers will only measure about 5/8" down the barrel.
As for my opinion about digital calipers, yes, you can find them at places like Harbor Freight for arund $19. I've seen them on sale there for $10.

They also can measure depths up to 6 inches deep.

That said, I own two of them and they are very accurate, giving repeated measurements with less than a few ten-thousandths of an inch.
The problem with them is, they do tend to eat batteries and just about every time I wanted to measure something with them, the battery was dead.

For a few bucks more you should be able to find dial calipers. These have a mechanical dial on them and they too are very accurate. They also never need a new battery right when you want to use them to measure something.
They can also be used to make precision layouts of hole locations, etc.

You can get a spring inside caliper, but these don't have a lot of accuracy. You will get as much information from a 5/8" dowel rod. Tie a small bundle of cleaning patches with string as the patches may come off the rod. The rod should slide without restriction from the muzzle to the breech. Are there any sections that are more restricted than others? Mark those spots with a small piece of masking tape. Are these at a place along the barrel where there are underlugs? Any indication of a bent barrel?

I have a set of the Harbor Freight digital calipers and they give measurements within acceptable tolerance to my Mitutoyo Vernier calipers.

Zonie said:

That said, I own two of them and they are very accurate, giving repeated measurements with less than a few ten-thousandths of an inch.
The problem with them is, they do tend to eat batteries and just about every time I wanted to measure something with them, the battery was dead.

For a few bucks more you should be able to find dial calipers. These have a mechanical dial on them and they too are very accurate. They also never need a new battery right when you want to use them to measure something.
They can also be used to make precision layouts of hole locations, etc.

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That's it exactly. I find that I don't even use my digital one any more. I put new batteries in and more times than not, it tells me right off that battery is low. Another plus is with the dial caliper I can see if it is measuring on the low side or high side of the measurement.

I remove the battery from mine when I'm done using it,

That has solved my dead battery issues...

Grenadier1758 said:

You can get a spring inside caliper, but these don't have a lot of accuracy. You will get as much information from a 5/8" dowel rod. Tie a small bundle of cleaning patches with string as the patches may come off the rod. The rod should slide without restriction from the muzzle to the breech. Are there any sections that are more restricted than others? Mark those spots with a small piece of masking tape. Are these at a place along the barrel where there are underlugs? Any indication of a bent barrel?

I have a set of the Harbor Freight digital calipers and they give measurements within acceptable tolerance to my Mitutoyo Vernier calipers.

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Ok this is getting weird. Tried the dowel idea and it slid fairly easily and consistently through the whole barrel, including where the jag got stuck. So the barrel appears to be fairly even all the way through.

Maybe try running it down the bore again but this time real easy so it don't get stuck. Oil it good first.

The very end of my ramrod (wooden) has several grooves in it so that my fingers can get a better grip and so that a prusik or other knot will not slip off. My metal bench rod has a large pinned on pommel with a 90 degree edge. I can tie it to a tree, stick it in a crotch or even slide it along the the edge of a 2x4 or loading bench and it will grab the edge pulling a stuck ball or patch. Heck I even hung it from a rafter in a picnic shelter once to pull a ball.

mooman76 said:

Maybe try running it down the bore again but this time real easy so it don't get stuck. Oil it good first.

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Oiled it right up, slid it down no problem until about 16 inches in where it wont go any further, tried a few times.

What is attached to the barrel at that point? Is there an underlug? Stock to barrel? Sling swivel? Something has to be there that has changed the shape of the bore at that point.

Great thought. I’d get the barrel off and see if you can see anything from the outside at the same spot. You’ve got a dent or something of the sort. Perhaps a weld was blown through or something strange like that. Put your rod down the bore to that depth without the jag on and see if you can feel anything.

Grenadier1758 said:

What is attached to the barrel at that point? Is there an underlug? Stock to barrel? Sling swivel? Something has to be there that has changed the shape of the bore at that point.

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Yeah there's one of the ram rod lugs right there. Not sure if that would affect it?

Bob McBride said:

Great thought. I’d get the barrel off and see if you can see anything from the outside at the same spot. You’ve got a dent or something of the sort. Perhaps a weld was blown through or something strange like that. Put your rod down the bore to that depth without the jag on and see if you can feel anything.

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Yeah there's gotta be something like that, I'll inspect it closely and see if I find anything.

JohannesKepler said:

Forgot to mention, it's metal, so it's a tad bit harder to get a good grip on it.

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Vise grips. Clamp on the rod and tap out with a mallet.

At 14" on my Loyalist Arms Long Land Pattern, I have the sling swivel underlug,

Measuring the barrel at the suspected restriction os one of those instances where having a digital caliper would aid in the investigation.

Grenadier1758 said:

At 14" on my Loyalist Arms Long Land Pattern, I have the sling swivel underlug,View attachment 40657

Measuring the barrel at the suspected restriction os one of those instances where having a digital caliper would aid in the investigation.

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Mine's the short land pattern so the sling swivel is further ahead than where it's getting stuck. You're right though, measuring it would probably be helpful. I might look into getting a caliper if I can't figure out any other possibilities

Sometimes the shock of a tapping will work wonders, better than a steady pressure. If it's a metal rod try this:
Lube the bore, clamp a pair of vise grips onto the rod and tap on the vise grips with a good size hammer until it moves.

I would contact Loyalist Arms and see what they offer after you describe the issue. If you don't get any satisfaction there I recommend sending the barrel to Bobby Hoyt and ask him to check it out and see what he recommends.

ADK Bigfoot said:

I got a jag stuck at a shooting match in Maine. The guy next to me took out a C-Clamp, clamped the rod to an overhead rafter, and yanked the gun away from the rod/jag. Slick as whale snot. I now carry a c-clamp in my shooting kit (so I will never need it again.)

ADK Bigfoot

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Are you sure whale snot is really slick?