• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades

Southern Rifle - South Carolina. Details/images/tips sought

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Sartana

32 Cal
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
23
Reaction score
12
I am considering having a flintlock built. I want it to be a southern rifle in general style (so something 1790-1830). Specifically, I would like it to model many of the ideas of ones that were made in South Carolina or the immediate region. What are some of the best pictorial book selections out there? I see so many books and so many are so pricey. I would like to find one that really zeros in on this region, if such a thing exists. Also, if any of you have images that you would be willing to share, I would be thankful. I am not really interested in having a true bare bones, non-decorated piece. So inlay, patch box and engraving suggestions sought. Thank you!
 
I’m not the greatest expert who every lived on non Appalachian South Carolina guns of the late period but I think they were few and very far between. Most guns would have come down the road from the industrial centers of NC, and they would have likely been not SMR types. At least that’s my understanding.
 
Interesting. I'd love to hear a little history about what would be an "SMR type" versus an Appalachian mountain rifle, etc.. I'm also interested in books that may describe these guns.

I’m not the greatest expert who every lived on non Appalachian South Carolina guns of the late period but I think they were few and very far between. Most guns would have come down the road from the industrial centers of NC, and they would have likely been not SMR types. At least that’s my understanding.
 
Interesting. I'd love to hear a little history about what would be an "SMR type" versus an Appalachian mountain rifle, etc.. I'm also interested in books that may describe these guns.

I use SMR interchangeably with Appalachian. I read your original post and didn’t necessarily think you meant you were looking for a mountain type gun. Using NC as an example there are 5 identified schools there, I believe, only one of which is Appalachian. The others more resemble PA guns than a mountain gun. Brass patch boxes, pipes, trigger guards, etc. If your looking for a southern Appalachian gun, it’ll basically be far western NC, East TN, north Georgia, and East Ky. I have a few books on those if that’s what your looking for.
 
this rifle was built by Kevin Blevins of Lancing NC, he built from a rifle his friend has. off of an original Gillespie rifle that roamed the top of the SC-NC mountains in the 1790 period. the rifle he patterned it off of was in the mans family since 1790s and handed down. so he told me there was a good known history. mine is 40 cal. i cannot remember what he said the original is. but it was a smaller caliber as well. mine has a straight 3/4 cross the flats slim barrel. it weighs just a tad over 6lbs i am far from any kind of expert but this is the story Kevin told me. if you want to know more i am sure he will tell you. he is a nice man and a good underrated builder i have his phone # if you are interested,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
_MG_5469.JPG
_MG_5472.JPG
_MG_5480.JPG
 
long cruise
That link is really going to help me out on my next build. Thanks!
Tony
 
Actually, I wasn't the original poster, but still find your info interesting and helpful as I really enjoy this southern mountain style of rifle.

I use SMR interchangeably with Appalachian. I read your original post and didn’t necessarily think you meant you were looking for a mountain type gun. Using NC as an example there are 5 identified schools there, I believe, only one of which is Appalachian. The others more resemble PA guns than a mountain gun. Brass patch boxes, pipes, trigger guards, etc. If your looking for a southern Appalachian gun, it’ll basically be far western NC, East TN, north Georgia, and East Ky. I have a few books on those if that’s what your looking for.
 
Take a look at Jim Kibler's SMR.
Jim’s SMR is based on the work of Joseph Whitson, a NC builder of about 1830. Here’s a pic of one I built (top) along with a bench copy of a Soddy Daisy rifle by Jack Duprey (middle). Very close in form and architecturally very typical of southern mountain rifles.
0818F1FC-8966-43BC-9616-EA2BE49337CE.jpeg
.
 
...or the ‘three-box Bean’ rifle. My favorite original of the type. I videoed it at a gun show last year. It’s on my ‘Alabama Kentucky Rifle Show’ series.
 
Jim’s SMR is based on the work of Joseph Whitson, a NC builder of about 1830. Here’s a pic of one I built (top) along with a bench copy of a Soddy Daisy rifle by Jack Duprey (middle). Very close in form and architecturally very typical of southern mountain rifles.
View attachment 39563.
That is interesting information. Thanks. I don't know much about various southern rifle "schools". I have assembled four of Jim's kits. The rifle you get for about $1000 is a tremendous bargain. The overall quality is unsurpassed. The wood to metal fit is about perfect. You would have to spend thousands more on a custom rifle than a Kibler costs to match the build quality. IF the Kibler SMR's styling is acceptable I would buy it.

If you are not interested in building your own, your builder can assemble a Kibler in a day. That frees up time to spend on embellishments.
 
Never been a fan of having computers and modern machinery crank out a kit for me. I think it is more in keeping of the history to make it by hand. If you lack the skill, have another make it by hand. Or start it for you. Some of the custom work on here by real gunsmiths can keep me up at night. I fall somewhere in between the two. I'll work a pre carved stock and take it where I think it should be. I'll take a thousand dollars of parts and turn it into a $300 gun. But I made it, and hunt with it, and eat what I kill with it. I am also guilty of owning a GPR in past years. Tack driver, but sold it off. Great guns if you want short cuts.
These kits are beautiful, but, in there own way , you are assembling another small mass produced gun. Just like the last guy did. You are applying the fit and finish.
I'm sure they are beautiful, but...........I no longer have the urge to dump $1400 into a computer generated gun. Just my 2 cents.
 
Never been a fan of having computers and modern machinery crank out a kit for me. I think it is more in keeping of the history to make it by hand. If you lack the skill, have another make it by hand. Or start it for you. Some of the custom work on here by real gunsmiths can keep me up at night. I fall somewhere in between the two. I'll work a pre carved stock and take it where I think it should be. I'll take a thousand dollars of parts and turn it into a $300 gun. But I made it, and hunt with it, and eat what I kill with it. I am also guilty of owning a GPR in past years. Tack driver, but sold it off. Great guns if you want short cuts.
These kits are beautiful, but, in there own way , you are assembling another small mass produced gun. Just like the last guy did. You are applying the fit and finish.
I'm sure they are beautiful, but...........I no longer have the urge to dump $1400 into a computer generated gun. Just my 2 cents.

It’s hard to argue with that position. I will throw this out there. If you care about historical accuracy, if you are interested in building a gun from a blank, $1000 is a small price to pay for assembly, finish, and metalwork practice when in the end you will be able to spend all the time you want fondling, and getting your mind around a gun with actual correct architecture. Which may make your first build a bit more than a $300 gun made from $1000 in parts. Besides that, it’s much more correct than any Pedersoli of roughly the same cost. I think they’re a deal and the best way for most people to put correct architecture in their hands.
 
Last edited:
Every part set you buy is cranked out on modern machinery. Therefore your rifle will be made on modern equipment. Thus the rifle you make from it is not HC authentic. Just because a rifle has a folk art look it does not make it "authentic".

If you want an authentic rifle made in the traditional way you will pay tens of thousands, if you can find anyone who can actually do the work. I think they make one every blue moon in Williamsburg.

Buying a bunch of parts from a supplier and making a rifle from them will be not be any more or less "authentic" than a Kibler, or Chambers for that matter. Locks in particular tend to be pretty crappy. They are slapped together from cast parts. The fit is sloppy and the finish is non-existent. Function is spotty.

The difference is the Kibler kit will make a rifle of such high quality it can not be matched by anyone for a sane price. Kibler is producing something new and different. IT is not an ordinary mass produced kit. He is obsessive about quality and a master gunsmith. To compare his kits to Lyman, Pedersoli and such is off target.

IF you want old timie custom features, modify the Kibler. Make it yours and unique. The parts that really matter like the lock, barrel and triggers will still be of the highest quality and will give years of flawless service.
 
Last edited:
Every part set you buy is cranked out on modern machinery. Therefore your rifle will be made on modern equipment. Thus the rifle you make from it is not HC authentic. Just because a rifle has a folk art look it does not make it "authentic".

If you want an authentic rifle made in the traditional way you will pay tens of thousands, if you can find anyone who can actually do the work. I think they make one every blue moon in Williamsburg.

Buying a bunch of parts from a supplier and making a rifle from them will be not be any more or less "authentic" than a Kibler, or Chambers for that matter. Locks in particular tend to be pretty crappy. They are slapped together from cast parts. The fit is sloppy and the finish is non-existent. Function is spotty.

The difference is the Kibler kit will make a rifle of such high quality it can not be matched by anyone for a sane price. Kibler is producing something new and different. IT is not an ordinary mass produced kit. He is obsessive about quality and a master gunsmith. To compare his kits to Lyman, Pedersoli and such is off target.

IF you want old timie custom features, modify the Kibler. Make it yours and unique. The parts that really matter like the lock, barrel and triggers will still be of the highest quality and will give years of flawless service.
i here Kibler's are good alright, but as far as locks, i have a Bob roller on a southern rifle and a chambers round faced waterproof English on a jaeger that was tuned by Steve Zihn when he built the gun, they are right good,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 
i here Kibler's are good alright, but as far as locks, i have a Bob roller on a southern rifle and a chambers round faced waterproof English on a jaeger that was tuned by Steve Zihn when he built the gun, they are right good,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Bob’s locks are the best ever made IMO. Kibler’s second, and Chambers equal to Kibler, when tuned, especially his round face English and Ketlands. I’m sad Bob is only making triggers anymore....I have 3 sets of each trigger set he makes but no locks.
 
Back
Top