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Family heirloom

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Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Messages
14
Reaction score
16
Location
Collin County, Texas
Anyone have any information on this family heirloom. I don’t have information on it. 3A83CEED-4530-43AA-92CA-BD44F3B8D2D1.jpeg3A83CEED-4530-43AA-92CA-BD44F3B8D2D1.jpeg3A83CEED-4530-43AA-92CA-BD44F3B8D2D1.jpeg3A83CEED-4530-43AA-92CA-BD44F3B8D2D1.jpegBB4E9FD6-ADB1-4F3D-BD6F-F2B02A9940BA.jpeg4205D485-7C57-46FD-8AFF-A486EAE623AD.jpeg3A83CEED-4530-43AA-92CA-BD44F3B8D2D1.jpegBB4E9FD6-ADB1-4F3D-BD6F-F2B02A9940BA.jpeg4205D485-7C57-46FD-8AFF-A486EAE623AD.jpegECE4CF7A-9185-46EE-A66F-D6F3A49D9694.jpegF86CB005-DB48-4093-A872-BC08503395CF.jpegAA4CDC04-E471-4A64-AB75-8E7D54EF1D7A.jpeg89A1492E-9135-4A07-8140-797646CA8805.jpeg1808A26B-8A0A-4E1E-B9E2-AF6527DA4407.jpeg78000CD5-1887-49F1-B092-478642FC6CEC.jpegB21A50B6-A526-4898-8D54-130C81861FF4.jpeg
 
Cherokee Lawman,

Does the rifle have any legible markings at all on the barrel or the lock? Any markings would be helpful. Bear in mind, however, that the lock and/or barrel may have been mass-produced and purchased as parts by the gunsmith for stocking and assembly into a finished rifle. Barrels marked Remington, for example, were sold all over the country, as were Goulcher locks.

Any oral history or family lore pertaining to the rifle may also be of value. If you could give us an idea of the bore size, that might also be helpful.

I am not an expert, but to me, your rifle has the look of something built in the upper midwest in the mid-19th century. That type of scroll guard was used a lot in that general region, although a number of California-built rifles of the mid-19th century also had them. On the other hand, the absence of a rib under the barrel, with the ramrod pipes attached directly to the lower flat of the barrel, is something I would associate more with the northeast.

One intriguing feature is that acute angle in the "step-off" of the lockplate, just forward of the bolster. We would normally expect a 90 degree angle. However, I have recently seen photos of two supposedly "Hawken" fullstocks that had lockplates just like that. I think those locks were probably mass produced for the gunsmithing trade, but I don't know who made them.

I think it is a nice rifle. It has seen some use and sustained some damage, but it looks as if all of the major parts are present. There are a lot of under-appreciated later-era percussion rifles out there, and I don't think they command a very high price on the market unless they are unequivocally marked by a famous maker or have documentation of ownership by a well-known personality. However, that should not diminish your rifle's value as a family heirloom.

Please look it over carefully and let us know if you find any marks at all, or if you have any family history on this rifle, that might guide us to the maker.

Notchy Bob
 
Love the off centered replacement tang bolt; obviously placed by a post builder individual; perhaps one of your family members. It adds so much to the character of the rifle. The main thing is your gun was made in America by Americans, and used by Americans and for that you can be proud to own this prime example of early pioneer armament. I'm sorry I can't add much to the discussion, but I have seen a cherry 1/2 stocked .32 cal original percussion from St. Louis that almost matches your gun. It too, was a family heirloom.
 
Here are some other items that were with it. The ball mould is the only thing with markings. The small container has a little bit of the label still on it.
 

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Your mold, if I am reading the stamp correctly, is marked 051. Molds of that era (mid 19th century) were marked by gauge or ball per pound. A 51 gauge ball would be 0.450". Are the balls in the cap tin a cast ball with the sprue cut off? Could they be from the mold? What is the diameter of those balls?
 
Your mold, if I am reading the stamp correctly, is marked 051. Molds of that era (mid 19th century) were marked by gauge or ball per pound. A 51 gauge ball would be 0.450". Are the balls in the cap tin a cast ball with the sprue cut off? Could they be from the mold? What is the diameter of those balls?

To me it looks like the sprue was cut off, I would say the balls came from this mold. The one ball measured .336 inches.
 

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You've got a dandy heirloom! The bag, mold, and the old primer container are great accessories to a fine old gun. If you rotate and adjust the mold's photo, it appears to read 140 balls to the pound or roughly about .33 caliber .... close enough to your caliper measurement.
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I have a rifle that looks somewhat similar but plainer. It was described to me as a Hardware store gun. I know little to nothing about it either. It has been repaired many times over the years. It is shootable and I have shot it. It had the nipple and bolt for the lock missing when I rescued it from a pawn shop.
 
Holy smoke! You have the rifle, the pouch, horn, and mould to go with it, and a cap tin with caps, and balls that fit the mold and the rifle! Any one of those items would be a great heirloom, but to have it all, together in a set, is a rare occurrence.

I unfortunately don't have anything to add with regard to the rifle. I don't know where Collin County is in Texas, but there is a gunsmith and author named Chris Hirsch who I believe is in Sugarland. He has a website and I'll try to post a link later. He wrote a very informative book entitled The Texas Gun Trade which may interest you. Anyway, if you contact Mr. Hirsch, he may be able to help you identify your rifle.

You may also want to register with the American Longrifle Forum and post your pictures there. Mr. Herschel frequents that forum, as do a number of other collectors and muzzleloading authorities. Some of the same people come to this forum, but not all of them.

Do you have any more detail shots of the pouch that you can show? Is it dark canvas, or leather? We're there any other additional items in it?

Thank you for posting, and showing these remarkable family heirlooms.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
You've got a dandy heirloom! The bag, mold, and the old primer container are great accessories to a fine old gun. If you rotate and adjust the mold's photo, it appears to read 140 balls to the pound or roughly about .33 caliber .... close enough to your caliper measurement.View attachment 38689

Thank you for the information. The only thing I know is everything was found in a attic in Indiana.
 
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