ammunition choices

still learning about muzzleloaders but honing in on .50 cal. percussion rifles.
Wanted to learn if a traditional cap and ball is preferable.
What about Sabots? Do they eliminate need for lubed patches when loading?
Also, what do you think of blackpowder pellets? Are they good or just the lazy way> Thanks

Forum rules.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/forum-rules.108881/
9: We do not discuss copper and/or jacketed, plastic/polymer tipped bullets, sabots, power belts, or other 'plastic-wrapped' bullets. Smoothbores using plastic wads and steel shot are an exception to this rule.

You are in a "traditional" muzzleloading forum where we do not discuss such things as inlines, shotgun primers, sabots, pellets, etc that are in the realm of "modern" muzzleloaders. Read some of the many posts in this traditional muzzleloading forum & you will find a great many people who successfully hunt, target shoot, plink & reenact using traditional muzzleloaders utilizing loose powder, home cast roundballs & cloth patches. Be ready to read a lot when you get into the posts regarding opinions re the "best" lube for patches. Welcome to our world.

lenl349 said:

Wanted to learn if a traditional cap and ball is preferable.

Click to expand...

It is for most of us, the rest shoot conicals.

Then there are the flintlock shooters, pure heaven.

IMO the pellets(we can discus pellets) are a lazy way to load. Some hunters prefer because it makes it easier in the field to carry pellets for a reload. The bad thing is you are stuck with the grain loads that the pellets are, and sometimes a little harder to ignite. With powder you can custom tailor your load to what suits your needs and what your gun shoots best. If you intend to shoot conicals instead of RBs, a tighter twist rate of rifling usually works better. The 1-48 twist is what some call a compromise twist as it will shoot both RBs and conicals good but is not the best for either. And welcome to the forum.

Those inmentionables are for guns designed for them. The depth of the rifeling and the rate of twist does not serve well for those loads.
the fun of a ml is wrapped up in the fiddling with it. Ml are pipes, and twelve year old scotch, thousand page novels, and sunset in the mountains. A sit back take your time and enjoy it sport.

thank you to those who provided actual information to a newbie instead of just copping an attitude.

"Copping an attitude" is a bit harsh. Sometimes rules are bent a bit, but not much, and not everyone here is a diplomat, but hearts are generally in the right place. Most are eager to help where possible. I won't say that it gets like the Hatfield- Mccoy first ever Turkey dinner / barn dance, but it sometimes gets spirited. Opinions, and expertise vary by subject. Bottom line: you can learn a lot here. I do.

The idea here is we want to encourage new people to the sport, not chase them away because they feel were are a bunch of snobs. Yes he broke a rule but he is new and probably was a little excited wanting to jump in to a new thing. They are really a good bunch of guys here and sometime the conversations do get a little heated. Feel free to ask questions about traditional MLs and their components, we really do like to help new people as well as those that have been around awhile.

tenngun said:

A sit back take your time and enjoy it sport.

Click to expand...

Truer words have never been spoken.

lenl349 said:

thank you to those who provided actual information to a newbie instead of just copping an attitude.

Click to expand...

Your welcome, I answered the only question I could without breaking the rules.

If your wanting to learn more , observation is the best way. Can you find a club or group who shoot BP ? g o to an event, watch, ask questions , take notes, good chance someone will allow you to try a shot or two !

@lenl349

What kind of 50 cal muzzleloader are you interested in? Brands/models? Just remember, we can't talk about sabots, 209 primers or inline muzzleloaders. Do you have a particular brand you are taking a liking to? Lyman, Pedersoli, and Traditions all make good quality percussion cap and flintlock muzzleloaders that are inexpensive compared to 'customs'. Let us know what you intend to do with the rifle. Target only? Hunt? This will help you answer any questions you may have.

It really comes down to the type of muzzleloader you are talking about.
A "traditional" flintlock or sidelock is going to ignite much more reliably, in most cases, with loose black powder (BP) when using a #11 cap or musket cap.
Many use substitute powders, such as pyrodex, with no issues.
The type of people here for the most part really like to do things as traditional as they can, just like the mountain men used to do. Yes most drive a modern vehicle to their hunting spot or range, but once there they want to experience shooting their traditional muzzleloader as our forefathers did. They want to use real BP, with either conicals and/or patched roundballs (PRB), with a traditional style lube and many with tools/materials they've made themselves.
There is a wealth of knowledge here that is freely shared if shooting a traditional muzzleloader is what you're interested in, especially PRB shooting.

If you are more after using a rifle that meets your state's muzzleloader regulations so you can get in some extra hunting with as little "hassle" of using a muzzleloader as possible, then the sister forum to this one, called "Modern Muzzleloaders", is going to have the info you seek. They talk about all the "unmentionables" that aren't talked about here, such as inlines, BH209, sabots, and shotgun primer ignition systems.

To directly answer your questions:
1. Cap and ball being preferable is really up to your own interests. I love shooting/hunting with patched RB, and only deviate once in a while to pure lead conicals, but that is where my own interest lies.
2. We aren't allowed to talk about sabots, but I'll say that your question depends on the type of powder you use. If it leaves a fair amount of fouling in the bore then loading a second one isn't going to be very fun unless you run a cleaning patch between shots (known as swabbing). Many shoot without swabbing with patched RB because the lubed patch helps keep the fouling soft so the next shot loads easily, and a good fitting patch and RB will also scrape the fouling off the barrel as you load each time. This keeps loading easier and also maintains barrel consistency from shot to shot.
3. I've never tried to use pellets and have no experience with them. I will say that I like to be able to easily vary my powder charge in certain situations and loose powder makes this easy to do with an adjustable powder measure.

NorthFork said:

@lenl349

What kind of 50 cal muzzleloader are you interested in? Brands/models? Just remember, we can't talk about sabots, 209 primers or inline muzzleloaders. Do you have a particular brand you are taking a liking to? Lyman, Pedersoli, and Traditions all make good quality percussion cap and flintlock muzzleloaders that are inexpensive compared to 'customs'. Let us know what you intend to do with the rifle. Target only? Hunt? This will help you answer any questions you may have.

Click to expand...

I'm looking at Traditions and Lyman and Thompson Center primarily. Pedersoli seems a bit pricey for me. I've seen something called Investment Arms but I question the quality. To answer your question, the muzzleloader will be for target shooting only. thanks.

Traditions is a good starter gun but kind of bottom of the line. Not bad, but there's a reason they are the cheapest. Pedersoli is high because their quality is better. T/C and Lyman aren't bad. Cabelas aren't bad, they are made I think by Pedersoli now, use to be made by the same people that made Lyman. You might consider getting a good used one also to start out.

@lenl349

Investarms is the same as Lyman. Investarms makes the Lyman muzzleloaders.

Welcome from Oklahoma. To answer a couple of questions, older Thompson Centers are good rifles. Pellets won't work well in a side hammer gun. Loose powder is the way to go. I'd say to start off with the patched round ball.
Cheaper and I think better to learn with. Regular lead conical bullets, like the TC maxi hunters are a good choice. So are the Hornady great plains bullets.
Good luck and good shooting.

thanks very much. i was also wondering what powder you recommend for a 50 cal and what load? 50 grains 90 grains or somewhere in between?

Loose powder, and preferably real black, imho. I have seen pellets leave the muzzle blazing like tracer rounds only to fall to the ground a few yards from the muzzle, burning. Inconsistent and hard to ignite.

I had a very rich doctor friend who bought a very expensive muzzleloader who swore it wouldn't go off, or when it did, it shot huge patterns. I borrowed it for a day and in one hour had it shooting very small groups at hunting distances. I then provided him with the means to replicate what I did (enough for about 50 shots) and told him to throw the rest of his supplies away (or give them to someone he did not like.) He has returned for "refills" a few times, but he is always happy with the results.

ADK Bigfoot