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switched to real bp

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leadball

40 Cal.
Joined
Apr 10, 2004
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This week i bought a can of goex 3fg Real bp. I have used pyrodex not knowing the local store carried real stuff. I loaded up to 85 grains with 490 prb. REAL white smoke and lots of it :applause: cleaned very well with soap and water. the only disadvantage is I have to swab the barrel more between shots. Otherwise ignition is great and now, along with my buckskin possible bag and powder horn, i am closer to being a settler
 
Glad to hear you've got the real stuff. If you'll spitpatch, the patch will clean every time you load and you won't have to clean between shots. :winking:
 
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, real black powder...

Ain't nothing like the real thing...

Say, that would make a good song...
 
I have to admit, I switched back to black powder after many years away from the stuff. I have been getting some excellent results shooting it. I do not really find the clean up any worse then pyrodex. After all you still have to clean the things. After the water bath the only difference I noticed is there is more char crud in the breech area. A few patches and that is all cleaned out anyway.

Yesterday I was out shooting Goex FFFg in one of my inlines and was getting excellent groups. Just to see how bad it would be to load, I fired 10 shots using REAL conicals. I did not swab between shots. I saw no decrease in accuracy and they all loaded fine. I could only go to the 35 yard line because there were too many people around, and for safety reasons I would not push the issue.

My .58 caliber really seems to like black powder instead of pyrodex. The groups I have been shooting are fantastic. I think in the future I will not get the FFg size and go all with FFFg. There is none of the rifles that demand the larger grain powder, and the smaller stuff sure does seem to shoot cleaner.
 
Cayugad: The FFFg may or may not give you better groups, and it probably will decrease the fouling but one thing is for certain. It WILL increase the chamber pressure so go easy with heavy loads. This is especially true if your shooting Minies or other cylindrical bullets (like REAL or MaxiBalls).

It's just my opnion, but I think far too many shooters are into a "Power Trip" and tend to push their muzzleloaders far beyond what they were designed for. (I am not saying you are one of them, so don't take offense).

This "Power Trip" is only to be expected from people who were brought up with modern rifles where high velocity is the norm so they try to achieve similar performance from their sidelocks.
Perhaps if they read a few more historical books and read of the people maimed or killed by their trusty guns, they would appreciate the design weakness inherent in these guns.
IMO the only thing that saves them from themselves is the high quality of the materials modern muzzleloaders are made from.

OK, I'll get off my soap box. Enjoy our hobby!!
 
Zonie I understand what your saying. I am real careful about charges when I use the FFFg. I also take into consideration the difference in power between the FFFg and the FFg. I know the max charge for the rifles and stay well away from that. For instance, the 90 grains of FFFg Goex would be as high as I dare go shooting the R.E.A.L.s. I even reduce the charge more as I go up in the bullet weight. With big sabots

I really watch the loads because of the barrel pressures you can reach. I have found in some of the rifles that with low charges, they suffer in accuracy. The inlines tend to like a more powerful charge equal to the 100 grain area then the sidelocks for the most part but not always.

For instance, when I was shooting the REALs the other day, just for kicks I dropped the charge down to 50 grains (so some of the others could shoot it without recoil). Well come to discover the accuracy went right out the window. I then kicked the charge up to 60 grains and still the accuracy was not there.

My sidelocks tend to be much more forgiving when you drop the charge. In fact my .54 caliber shoots round balls much better with low charges then high ones. I guess all rifles are a puzzle unto themselves.

Still your warning was well taken...... Many people have made that sometimes fatal error.
 
I just made the switch to the real stuff myself.
Cleanup is a tad on the blacker side but who cares.
MM hit it just right..."ain't nutting like the real thing baby!"
My groups are almost exactly where they are with Pyrodex.

Huntin
 
I tried both some years ago and finally chose "the real thing" for all my shooting. I use 3F Goex in both my 54 and 45. I find it cleaner shooting than 2F and more accurate to boot. I also shoot paper patched 500 gr bullets in a 45-70 Sharps and use 2F for that on top of a few grains of smokeless.
 
I just returned from Cabelas with my first real can of Black (Goex FFF). I tested American Pioneer substitute powder last year in FF & FFF so this year I'm reversing 180 degress - retreating back to the 1800s. Maybe I'll quit shaving and wearing deodorant/anti-perspirant too ..lol

BTW... Cabelas wasn't cheap.... $16.99.... ouch!

Now I'm scared cuz' what happens if I/my rifles like it?

Do I change my screen name to Triple Goex?

BTW again... my cap was colored silver - dated November 2003
 
Now I'm scared cuz' what happens if I/my rifles like it?
Do I change my screen name to Triple Goex?

"Triple F" will work... :winking:

Nay, we like you as Triple Se7en...
 
Zonie,
On the "Power Trip", See lots of guys with big bellows of smoke at the range (same guys usually have the biggest groups on paper too). Funny how so many in-lines shoot 150 grs. :bull: and how many sidelock folks are trying to duplicate the loads :no:
I wonder, the bigger the kaboom the deader the deer? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Can't imagine what they're thinking (I know what they were feeling! :haha:)(Minuteman-anouther song?) Hunting around here is at best a 75 yard shot (except in the small corn fields). Most deer here are shot well under 50 yds.
 
If you like it, and I'll bet you will...J&J Pyrotechnics in Moscow, PA has the best best Goex price I've found...$227 for a case delivered to your door.

And they'll mix the 25 cans however you want...ie: one approach could be a can of FFFFg for priming, the majority of cans of FFFg for .45/.50/.54, and a few cans of FFg is you have a big bore like .58, .62, or .12ga., etc.
 
That is a good price for Goex, roundball... I'll have to make a note of that for when the time comes I need to order more powder...Thanks!
 
Las Vegas is weird. I can get Pyrodex P or RS for $ 13.00/lb, but real black not under $ 19.50!

This town seems to be also the "Black Powder Desert" :boohoo:.
 
Just a note on the "power trip". I shoot reasonably light loads in my sidelocks - hunting loads are between 70 and 85 grains of black or Triple 7, depending on the gun and whether I'm shooting roundball or a conical. By comparison, my brother shoots a Traditions Evolution in-line. (Did I actually admit to having a family member who shoots an in-line? Can't believe I just did that...) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif We tested his rifle using Powerbelt bullets and 2 x 50grain Pyropoop pellets and it produces very nice 100 yard groups - under 2". But when we threw an extra pellet down the barrel, what a freakin' disaster! Groups opened up to 6" to 12", with no consistancy whatsoever. Same thing happened with loose powder. Anything over about 110 grains and the groups really got loose in a hurry. So the 150 grain "MAGNUM" is to my way of thinking nothing more than an advertising gimmick playing on our "mine's bigger than yours" mentality. A bigger bang does not equate to a deader dear, but I fear it more often equates to yet another missed or wounded dear!
 
NJR

There's slight hope for your brother! Tell him to try filling the bottom base cup with bore butter -- then try the 150 grain load again. If he's shootin' 245 grain leaded, his odds are not very good to make groups at 100. If he has the shoulder to try 348 grain coppers with 3-pellets, his odds improve immensely.

If you're gonna be a witness to this range session, be sure to remind him to bring along some Ben-Gay & aspirin. It's for the hurtin' that powder/bullet combo puts on his shoulder...lol. He'll be reminded of that gun session every time he raises that arm above his head for about 5 days afterwards.
 
Well Triple7, my brother does indeed shoot the big copper blobs. And they hurt like heck! I developed a bad flinch as a kid - started shooting too much gun way too soon in life. (My first groundhog gun was Grandpappy's double-barrelled 12 guage, which I started carrying at the age of 8!) I know now that I'm sensitive to recoil, so the prospect of shooting such a kicking mule doesn't appeal to me at all. 70 grains of black powder under a patched round ball is gentle enough that I can shoot it all day in my Hawken and it's plenty enough for whitetails too! My brother has seen the wisdom in this approach and has decided 100 grains of Pyrodex is plenty enough for him, too! By the way, the muzzlebrake on his rifle is quite effective in taming recoil, but it still can't make the 150 grain loads bearable. The recipe for that mulekicking load should be three 50 grain Pyropoop pellets, one Powerbelt bullet, two Tylenol Extra Strength tablets and one trip to your favourite masseuse, chiropracter or physiotherapist. Only half the ingredients are for the gun, while the other half are for the shooter!
 
Hey NJR

Thanks for the report on the Evolution muzzlebrake. You are the first one to report that it works. BP Guru Randy Wakeman wrote Traditions Inc once to question the system on muzzleloaders. Traditions replied by saying words very similar to...
"We Really Don't Know! We've done no testing with them!"

:no:Simply Incredible! :no:
 
Triple Se7en,
Muzzlebrakes are indeed an item of controversy. Maybe almost as controversial as your namesake BP substitute! LoL

The comment I made about the effectiveness of the muzzlebrake on my brother's Traditions Evolution was based on the following observation. His rifle weighs in at under 7.5 pounds, complete with scope. He's shooting the 348 grain copper powerbelts with 100 grains of Pyrodex. By comparison, I'm shooting 300 grain conicals over 80 grains of Triple7 in my Thompson Renegade, which weighs a full pound more than my brother's rifle. The perceived recoil with the Evolution is in my estimation just about equal to that of my Renegade, even though the Evolution is shooting a heavier charge and heavier bullet from a lighter rifle. This is purely a subjective evaluation.

My competition pistols all have muzzlebrakes fitted to them, save for one of my Free Pistols. The recoil, and more importantly, the muzzle rise following the shot is significantly greater in the pistol which doesn't have a muzzlebrake (or compensator as they're more frequently called in that sport). And this is just with .22LR pistols!

I know there will be some folks who will call me on the interchangeability if the terms muzzlebrake and compensator. I won't get into the full technical definitions of these two terms, but I will say that most manufacturers don't make much of an attempt to accurately describe the devices fitted to their firearms. The muzzlebrake fitted to the Traditions Evolution functions more as a compensator than a muzzlebrake. If we want to see the difference between a compensator and a muzzlebrake, all we need to do is look at a competition shotgun with a drilled barrel - that's pretty close to the definition of a compensator. Then look at the muzzle of a 155mm Howitzer. Now THAT's a muzzlebrake!
 
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