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My tang/breach plug dilemma

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Thunder14

32 Cal.
Joined
Aug 6, 2018
Messages
322
Reaction score
131
Location
N.E. Pennsylvania
Ok this is what I’m up against,tang is snaped. Could I weld it back together or should I see if I can get it off and Replace it.Most likely the new on would have to be tacked onto the plug because the plug end has been destroyed. I could use some guidance on which route to go with this.
thankfull for any help
 

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Ok this is what I’m up against,tang is snaped. Could I weld it back together or should I see if I can get it off and Replace it.Most likely the new on would have to be tacked onto the plug because the plug end has been destroyed. I could use some guidance on which route to go with this.
thankfull for any help
It appears to me the reason it snapped is because of a poor weld job from the get go. A good weld should equal or exceed the metal's strength. It looks like it can be welded, but the previous weld/material needs to be removed first. If you have a good welder trades person, he/she can do you right.
Flintlocklar 🇺🇲
 
It looks like someone tried the wrench it off without removing the drum first. This is a CVA type plug and drum. Take the drum out, no vice grips please. Remove the plug. Assess what you have. IF the barrel is damaged I would call it ruined. Under no circumstance do any welding with the plug in the barrel.

There should have been no welding in the first place. The plug and tang should have been machined as one piece. This makes me suspicius of the whole thing from a safety standpoing.
 
I believe Larry of Omaha is on the right track. Looks like the plug and tang have already been welded at least once.

Looking at the pictures, I think I see why the tang "snapped". In this picture the drum is clearly screwed into the plug.
99c2c94e-2714-4c00-85ed-4ceac6e35c33-jpeg.34243


Someone tried removing the breech plug without first removing the drum which has the plug locked in the barrel. As a result, the tang was "snapped".

To better illustrate what I am talking about, look at this cross-section of a similar barrel, plug, and drum construction. One can see the threads where the plug is screwed into the barrel and the drum is then screwed through the wall of the barrel and into the side of the plug.
IMG_3548_low res.jpg


This is why the standard advice on this and other forums to less experienced muzzleloader shooters is never try to remove the breech plug. Too many bad things can happen.

Thunder14, to remove the breech plug from your barrel, you are going to have to remove the nipple drum first.

But this has its own set of complications that makes it unadvisable. That is when you try to put it all back together, you have to get the breech plug screwed back in to its precise original position so the hole and threads in the side of the plug line up perfectly with the hole and threads in the side of the barrel to allow the drum to be screwed back in. If it is off just a little bit, the threads on the drum can be damaged and compromised.
 
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I see another area of concern in these two pictures.
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The drum diameter was greater than the width of a barrel flat. The builder of this rifle chose to mill off some of the barrel so the drum didn't overhang the barrel flat. But it looks like he took off too much of the barrel. There appears to be just a very thin portion of the barrel left for thread engagement between the barrel wall and plug.

Once the drum is removed, you may find that the mill cut into the threads. I question whether this barrel is safe to shoot. It might be best to just junk the whole thing. I'm not sure it can be salvaged and still safe to shoot.

At a minimum, the existing breech and drum would need to be cut off the barrel and the barrel re-cut and tapped for a new breech plug.

I doubt this rifle is worth the effort and expense.
 
It may be possible that the tang broke before any other damage was done to the rest of the assembly. Personally I would weld the tang back, clean the area and secure the barrel somehow so that it could be fired with a substantial load. After that I would look for signs of leakage anywhere. Note I do not recommend that procedure unless you have considerable experience as a welder.

I knew someone back in the 70s that was able to secure the barrel well enough and get a good bite on the breech plug with a breech plug wrench that he was able to shear off the drum and turn the plug which of course trashed the drum, plug and rear of the barrel.
 
Phil Meek saw way more than I originally did. I was focused on T14's original question about welding. The breech area is a disaster! Pitch the barrel or at least whack off the hack job and re breach! Thanks Phil for pointing out the huge hazzard here.
Flintlocklar 🇺🇲
 
There should have been no welding in the first place. The plug and tang should have been machined as one piece.
I respectfully disagree with you. Granted, a fully machined breech plug might be a neater way to go, but a welded tang/plug is still a quality method. I made 3 or 4 breech plugs, using R.H. McCrory's book for instruction.
Flintlocklar 🇺🇲


BP.jpg
 
Well here is what I did I tig welded it today, I did it with breach plug in the barrel and its seems its going to be fine.
 

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In the first post the OP says he’s going to weld it. Then it winds up he does, why ask the question to some folks that have a firm base in gun work. I will applaud the well stated, knowledgeable folks that took time to try to guide him yet failed.
 
Well here is what I did I tig welded it today, I did it with breach plug in the barrel and its seems its going to be fine.
The tang is now repaired. What are you going to do about barrel's breech end that had too much metal removed for the drum? I would not shoot that barrel with the breech in its' present condition. JMO! Be safe my friend.
Flintlocklar 🇺🇸
 
If it were my gun, I’d give the barrel a haircut, get or make a new breech plug, install the plug and drum, and then deal with the slightly shorter barrel in the stock. Pretty traditional, at least from what I have read. Just another option/opinion for what it is worth.
 
Ok looks like the barrel is going to get cut,I was not trying to dismiss everyone’s advice on the barrel being no good its just in the beginning i was told weld it so i did,but later on more advice came and it was deemed unsafe so we will take the advice and recut or replace the barre.
Thank everyone for there much appreciated advice guiding me in the correct direction.
 
ya I'm going to do some research on what would be my best option.I took on this gun to learn how to overcome issues with a muzzle loader not to claim I have some wonderful museum find to restore, Some people forget they had to learn also they weren't born with all the knowledge they have acquired just because I ask a question does not mean I'm not taking in everyone's advice but a accumulation of ideas is always better than just one opinion.
Thank you everyone for the patience and much valued help
 
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