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Imacfrog

Imacfrog

50 caliber
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
146
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Location
Maine
Being new to black powder firearms, I have a couple of quick questions.

1) Where can I get a wedge pin for a TC Hawken? #7011

2) Does anyone have any experience with the Skinner Sight on a TC Hawken?

3) This might seem like a no brainer but . . ., when sighting in a gun for hunting season should the actual load that you plan on using be used or is there a way to use round balls that will approximate a Maxi-ball?

Sorry if my questions are overly basic, I am transitioning from traditional archery. Thanks!
 
Welcome to the forum from Western North Carolina.

1. Track of the Wolf has wedge keys.

2. Some use the LoPro Skinner Sight, though I haven’t.

3. Always best to sight in with load you are going to hunt with. The Maxi-ball, while some use for hunting, isn’t a very popular choice among those using conicals in traditional muzzleloaders. Depending on caliber and game, there are possibly better options. Many use a patched roundball for hunting.
 
Greetings from the coast of Maine. Are there varying weights in round balls or is there a standard? The Hawken, I purchased came with a box of Maxi-balls which the seller said was for hunting. Would have no problem using the “ball” as it is more traditional. Just thought as a newbie, I might be better off using the maxi for accuracy. Is this myth? Do not plan on taking a shot anymore than 50 yards or so (doubles my archery range!
 
Match the projectile to the charge. A patched round ball will do just about anything. Best hunting load is what drives accuracy per the projectile because placement is more important.
 
Since you have the Maxi-balls, you might as well give them a try on the range, but a round ball will easily down any deer on the continent with less recoil and powder. Unless you pour your own, Maxi-balls are expensive for practicing..
 
You didn't give the caliber of you rifle, but the majority of the TC Hawkens were 50 caliber. I agree with working up a load for round ball. If you want to experiment with maxi balls have fun but as others noted the round ball will be good enough unless going for something larger than deer. I've had a TC Hawken for 40 years and bought a maxiball mold when I got it. I cast a bunch of maxis early on and never got around to using them other than to shoot a few targets early on. In a TC a .490 round ball with a tight patch and 70-80 grains of FFG black powder will do the job. Many here like FFFG more, but I have been happy with FFG. Either will work.
 
There are folk that swear by conicals of some sort. And many of us have had a lifetimes of success with patched ball.
It is important to practice with what you hunt with.
You need to check your gun for twist rate.
1/48 one turn in four feet. This is the rate we see on a lot of old round ball guns and shoots real well.
Many RB barrels have slower twist, 1/56,1/66 even 1/72. They won’t shoot conical at all.
Some guns have a 1/24 or so these won’t shoot ball worth a darn.
Then look at how deep your rifling is. If you can barely see the groves it won’t handle patch well, if it looks like little canyons it won’t do well for many conicals.
 
The Hawken is 50 caliber and the grooves are very prominent. The gun doesn't look as if was shot much at all. Thanks for all the insight and advice.
My son is trying to talk me into putting a scope on the Hawken but that just seems to me to be out of character (wrong) with choosing to hunt with a black powder firearm.
Again, does anyone have any experience (good or bad) with the Skinner Sight? It looks to my eyes, to be a solid and simple peep sight. Some of the peep sights I have seen look like accidents waiting to happen (i.e. easy to bump out of adjustment). Any feedback would be appreciated.
 
If you want to hunt with a scope I would suggest a modern centerfire. I prefer traditional. I have a Skinner peep sight on my 45-70 lever gun (whoops mentioned an unmentionable) and it works fine so if you want a peep sight that is a good one in my opinion for your Hawken. By the way a 50 caliber Hawken has a 1:48 twist which will handle roundballs and maxiballs. I prefer the roundballs in mine. Your mileage may vary.....good luck.

Dave
 
Regarding a scope, I don’t like them on a traditional muzzleloader. That said much depends on your eyes and distance one is shooting. Much depends too on the distance one is planning to shoot. In most cases 100 yards is a reasonable limit or less for most of us. If you can keep the balls in the kill zone of a deer at your maximum distance without a scope you will appreciate the challenge. Many of us are more likely to shoot at 50 yards or less. That is usually open sight territory unless old eyes create a problem.
 
Imacfrog said:
Being new to black powder firearms, I have a couple of quick questions.

1) Where can I get a wedge pin for a TC Hawken? #7011

2) Does anyone have any experience with the Skinner Sight on a TC Hawken?

3) This might seem like a no brainer but . . ., when sighting in a gun for hunting season should the actual load that you plan on using be used or is there a way to use round balls that will approximate a Maxi-ball?

Sorry if my questions are overly basic, I am transitioning from traditional archery. Thanks!
Click to expand...


In my Renegade 70 grains of powder beehind a round ball and 90 grains of powder behind a maxi-ball shot equally accurate and to the same point of aim at 75 yards.
 
mooman76 said:
Usually the Hawken does have the 1-48 twist but occasionally some did not. It's best to know for sure.
Click to expand...


If it’s a TC Hawken it is 1 in 48 twist unless it is one of the Fox Ridge specials and they are clearly marked as to twist on the barrel.
 
Bubba.50 is correct. Standard TC twist in the Hawken and Renegade was 1:48 unless it is marked Roundball twist barrel. Of course at this stage of the game with all of the re-bores happening it does not hurt to check the twist. I am guilty of having several roached out barrels rebored to a larger caliber with a better roundball twist and a couple of .58 smoothbores.

Dave
 
Welcome, Imacfrog, to the Wonderful World of muzzleloading. My opinion is: do NOT scope the rifle. For one thing, most muzzleloading hunting is done at less than 100 yards, and often less than 50 yards. If you cannot hit a target at that distance with iron sights, a scope isn't likely to improve things. Also, scoping the rifle makes it very top heavy, and more difficult (my opinion) to keep a proper cheek weld with the stock.
 
Couple of questions to help us answer your questions although you have gotten most of the answers needed.

What do you plan to use the rifle for? Is it to hunt? Will you be hunting deer, bear, moose or what species of game animal? What is your likely range? At your 50 yard range, and you previous experience in traditional archery, a round ball hunting load will be very effective. A 0.490 ball wrapped in a 0.015 pillow ticking patch lubed with Track of the Wolf Mink Oil, which you can get when you order the wedge.

Its kind of a myth that maxi balls are good for hunting and the round balls are only good for plinking or target. Its also a myth that the 1 in 48" twist is not good for round ball and was developed for the maxi ball. Well, the maxi ball is no longer in production and some of the other good conical bullets are hard to find. You will soon run out of the maxi balls. Then your alternative is to find a mold and start casting your own.

Round balls do come in different weights. The difference in weight is due to the difference in diameter. Different diameters usually require a different thickness of patching material to reach optimal accuracy on target. The shallow rifling of the T/C works better with tight ball and patch combinations.
 
Grenadier1758 said:
Couple of questions to help us answer your questions although you have gotten most of the answers needed.

What do you plan to use the rifle for? Is it to hunt? Will you be hunting deer, bear, moose or what species of game animal? What is your likely range? At your 50 yard range, and you previous experience in traditional archery, a round ball hunting load will be very effective. A 0.490 ball wrapped in a 0.015 pillow ticking patch lubed with Track of the Wolf Mink Oil, which you can get when you order the wedge.

Its kind of a myth that maxi balls are good for hunting and the round balls are only good for plinking or target. Its also a myth that the 1 in 48" twist is not good for round ball and was developed for the maxi ball. Well, the maxi ball is no longer in production and some of the other good conical bullets are hard to find. You will soon run out of the maxi balls. Then your alternative is to find a mold and start casting your own.

Round balls do come in different weights. The difference in weight is due to the difference in diameter. Different diameters usually require a different thickness of patching material to reach optimal accuracy on target. The shallow rifling of the T/C works better with tight ball and patch combinations.
Click to expand...



Yes, deer hunting! Thanks for your input. It is very reassurring to be getting the same consistent insights from all that have answered my queries.
 
With 1/48 TC it will shoot maxie or patched ball well. You might get small groups from x after you experiment, but the difference between two inch groups and four inch groups makes a big difference at a shooting competition But no difference to a deer.
A scope is an athama to traditionalist, but will have all the advantages as it does on a modern gun. It’s problem is range. About a hundred yards, maybe one fifty, tops out a ml range conical or ball. Much hunting is at closer range with ml, I would say I have more kills under thirty yards then over.
Instead of thinking of ml as a short range rifle think of it as archery on steroids or hand gun hunting
 

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