Scottish Percussion Deer Rifle

TFoley said:

I reckon it is really for an umbrella.

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Never thought of that
Feltwad

Brolly yes I like that ,Don't believe it but I like the whimsy. What was his Patent?. The rifle looks normal other than its very unusual barrel length & the bayonet bar .The bore isn't a world away from the 1851 Minie and its military barrel length . Who knows what was in the customers mind ?, Keen Volunteer wanting to be ready if the French invaded? .Yes some carry a Moses stick but I cant see the muzzle rest idea. I've seen a 60" barrelled Purdey Percussion rifle up in the old Palace Museum in Nepal '.The customer is always right' however eccentrick his notions .
Regards Rudyard

Thank you for the extra images Feltwad.
A very elegant rifle.
Looking that that bar at the muzzle from the muzzle end, it looks Nothing like any bayonet catch I have seen, so you might be on the right track re.
a fitting for a rest. I don't understand the unusually long barrel, so I think the gun is designed for a specific purpose.
All Very interesting!

Gorgeous and impressive deering piece!!

Well, it is a wonderful specimen, no matter what the side lug is for. Have you had a chance to shoot the rifle, Feltwad?

BillinOregon said:

Well, it is a wonderful specimen, no matter what the side lug is for. Have you had a chance to shoot the rifle, Feltwad?

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The law in the UK is very strict on shooting a rifle like this it is a antique and may be kept has a collectors piece and not put on a Firearms certificate. If I wished to shoot it then it would have to be put on certificate has a antique , it then can only be shot on a military approved range and certainly not for what it was built for to shoot deer , shooting deer with a muzzle loader is against the law . Uk gun laws are the strictest in the world and that includes the originals , in my life time I have seen many changes in the law and too those members across the pond you are lucky that your laws are a lot less restricted
Feltwad

Yes its a rigamarole to keep up with UKs anti gun laws . Then some idiot' experts' came up with the notion that no black powder guns give enough knock down to kill deer nor any arrow could kill deer as it didn't have enough feet per second to do so .That excluded the 600 nitro too slow so unfit, despite what it would do to Elephants. & how did Robin Hood manage ? . The Enfield & Snider notably good for their killing capacity & How many thousands of Soldiers fell to under powered Brown Bess ? ?. No some noodle brain trots out such ballistics that fit their pet 243 or 270, popular with these ' Beer Talkers '(UK Deer Stalkers' largely a bunch of snobs ) If I'de exclude the Cullers who are not . Net result the Govt happily sieze this poop as it suits them very well. And I gave it away and move to a land with no such notions . The Deer & Wild pigs, Thar, Chamois. Evidently don't understand ballistics so succumb to the ill favoured lead ball & arrows .

But UK isn't alone the Continent have a lot of anti gun laws all designed to discourage gun ownership .And Australian States seem to vie with each other to dream up most most negative and senseless anti gun laws . We currently have an anti gun shower of Leftist Government naturally city based & anti gun, if more so modern sorts & deer are classified as ' Noxious animals'. Bit like politicions. ( But there is no open season on the latter) and no closed season at all for the former . Rudyard

This area of the forum is intended as a place to discuss shooting percussion guns. It is not a place to talk about restrictive gun laws or the people who make them.

This seems like a lot of rifle for a bayonet. Could be for finishing the chore from a safer distance. On the other hand, if you didn't have time to reload before the charging Cape Buffalo got to you, well...? Hope someone figures it out definitively.

Having carried and used Bayonets for a couple of decades in the 'Gun Club', I think it was added on somewhat later as an accessory. Most definitely a bayonet lug. To the right of the barrel, out of the way of the ramrod or its' use, when loading. For a right-handed shooter. I believe it was put on later, civilian style mounting, spring catch on the bayonet. I think this fast-twist rifle was used on beasties that had a tendency to 'bite back'.. And in a caliber with lots of 'bash'. Tinhorn

The calibre is typical of those made for deer stalking in the UK Tinhorn.
For dangerous game, rifles in the 12 and up gauges were much more popular, until nitro rounds came along.

Zonie said:

This area of the forum is intended as a place to discuss shooting percussion guns. It is not a place to talk about restrictive gun laws or the people who make them.

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I apologise for that only answering too explaining on where it can be shot in the UK
Feltwad

I still believe that this gun never left he UK it was built has a deer rifle in the calibre which was popular at that period so why did it want a bayonet I still think it was made for something else I also cannot see any evidence where it was fitted at a later date . Has for water buffalo and big game I would say no has there were bigger calibre made specially for that purpose With no logic explanation has to its use only a bayonet and some stupid remarks by some I think it is time that this thread is disbanded and put to rest
Feltwad

Feltwad said:

I still believe that this gun never left he UK it was built has a deer rifle in the calibre which was popular at that period so why did it want a bayonet I still think it was made for something else I also cannot see any evidence where it was fitted at a later date . Has for water buffalo and big game I would say no has there were bigger calibre made specially for that purpose With no logic explanation has to its use only a bayonet and some stupid remarks by some I think it is time that this thread is disbanded and put to rest
Feltwad

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Alas, could it be that it was not intended as a connection point for something to be added to the rifle but for connecting or securing the rifle to something else; such as a carriage or perhaps an at ready position in a dwelling?

Feltwad:
Thank you for posting such a fine rifle. Would it be possible for you to post or send me some of the stock measurements? It appears to have a fairly long length of pull and the butt looks to be 2” or over.... No clue on your mounting bracket but it sure has solicited some interesting ideas...

thanks

Sorry for the "stupid" comments Bri.
I never realised the black tie only on the invitation.

This is a very beautiful rifle. About all I know regarding deer stalking in Scotland came out of this book...



...originally published in 1923. My copy is a reprint, and one of those lucky finds I picked up for almost nothing while browsing in a used book store. It's actually a very nice read. The author didn't say anything about muzzle-loaders, but he specifically recommended open sights, and he strongly recommended double "unmentionable" rifles over repeaters. He did have a lot to say about rifle practice in the field, shooting at a distance and up and down hill. I could see FeltWad's rifle being used for that type of hunting.

As for that enigmatic bracket on the side of the barrel, I'll defer to those who are better informed. On any other type of rifle, my first thought would be for a bayonet, but on a rifle like this with a set trigger and folding leaf sights? It just looks like it was designed for careful and deliberate shooting in an environment where the target might be at virtually any distance, from pretty near to quite far. I just can't see taking a 200 yard shot at a deer, and then fixing a bayonet to run up and "finish 'im off," although on the other hand, I guess I could visualize John Cleese doing something like that in an episode of "Monty Python."

Thanks again to FeltWad for starting the thread and posting the pictures.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

Upper attachment point for the rifles sling. There is a swivel on the butt, but the pics don't show a matching one on the fore end.

It didn't double duty as a harpoon gun by any chance and we are seeing a fixing for a reel or some other line handling device??

44Bro said:

Upper attachment point for the rifles sling. There is a swivel on the butt, but the pics don't show a matching one on the fore end.

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The upper swivel which is missing was fixed to the top ramrod pipe see image and enlarge
Feltwad