Help with broken lock spring

Looking again at the picture of the lock I’m not sure it’s a do it yourself project?
Tell your gunsmith it won’t spark, say please.

Artificer said:

What is the outside diameter and inside diameter of the spring? Or at least for the inside diameter, what size rod goes through it?

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Artificer or one of us here may have the right size spring on hand.




William Alexander

Artificer said:

What is the outside diameter and inside diameter of the spring? Or at least for the inside diameter, what size rod goes through it?

Gus

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The thing about this spring is that I'm not sure if it's the "stock" spring or not. Are they supposed to fit lose, with a couple of washers on the end?

Here's what I actually have, notice that the full fired gap is more than the total spring length? Is that normal in a flintlock?

Jaan said:

The thing about this spring is that I'm not sure if it's the "stock" spring or not. Are they supposed to fit lose, with a couple of washers on the end?

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My experience with coil springs in guns is almost completely with modern guns. The springs are not only as long as the length of the space for them, BUT also a bit longer. IOW, you need to compress them to get them in the gun.

Jaan said:

Here's what I actually have, notice that the full fired gap is more than the total spring length? Is that normal in a flintlock?

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I don't believe that is normal in any gun. Actually and trying not to be unnecessarily unkind, but it looks like a Rube Goldberg attempt to fix the problem.

Coil Springs that are required to have the amount of pound/tension used like this are often, if not usually formed so there is a fairly flat coil on each end that is perpendicular to the length of the spring. The idea is that it puts fairly even pressure against the working surface/s. This spring is not only what powers the flint cock/hammer to go forward and cause the flint to make sparks; BUT it is also meant to keep the flint cock/hammer forward (under spring pressure) when the flint cock/hammer has gone all the way forward. That way the flint cock/hammer does not flop around when it is fully down.

I think this spring was cut from a longer length spring, so it does not have such flat coils on the end. I also THINK this is part of the reason the washer/s were used - so the clipped coil might have put more even pressure against the parts. However, a solid washer or washers around the rod would have been better for that purpose. The other reason to put the washer/s in place was the spring was cut too short and that is how they closed up the distance in which the spring operated and/or give more tension to keep the flint cock/hammer down at the end of it's movement and not flop around.

The outer diameter of the coil spring may or even probably is important to ensure it has room to be compressed and then uncompress quickly and not rub against the lock plate.

I wonder if an M1 Garand Hammer Plunger Spring could be used as a replacement part, but I have to go measure the inside diameter and would also need the outside diameter of your spring.

Gus

An M1 Garand Hammer Plunger Spring has a wire diameter of .080", but the interior diameter takes a rod up to .220" in diameter. The outside diameter is .355". So this spring may or even probably is too loose on the rod in your lock.

Gus

colorado clyde said:

Somewhere out there.....there is a company that makes custom coil springs....but I can't remember. :hmm:

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Wolff Springs maybe?

Wolff Springs

I also measured coils springs that might work from M1911, M1 Carbine, AR's, M1903's and none of them would work. Sorry.

Gus

Tinker2 said:

Don’t feel awkward to go back to him, if you want a new spring, tell him.

William Alexander

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Indeed, he MAY have one of Brownell's Coil Spring Kits that MAY work.

Gus

Have you tried the auto parts store? Sometimes a guy gets lucky.

I can probably make you one Jaan, I wind all my own coil springs on my lathe and I think I may have some .078 piano wire on hand.
You'll need to send me the broken one so I can get the ID, OD, coil count and length unless you can measure these accurately yourself.
Odd that it broke, I almost never see coil springs break in firearms.
If you want we could do a spare which you probably will never use.
Bill, is your sideslapper spring still working?
Always curious how well they hold up or not!

Bless M.D. for offering to make one for you. Many full time gunsmiths will not touch this kind of work because they don't understand or do this work much or at all, or the time involved can or will wind up costing them money.

Personally, I would most strongly suggest you send the whole lock to him, including all the bits and pieces. That would allow him to get the correct length, number of coils and ensure it works.

Gus

Thank you everyone for your responses, I really appreciate it! There's a lot of good information here.

M.D. said:

I can probably make you one Jaan, I wind all my own coil springs on my lathe and I think I may have some .078 piano wire on hand.

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Thank you for the offer, I'll probably take you up on it. The thing is, so far I'm not 100% sure...in fact, now I'm pretty much sure it's not...the original spring. If you look at the part of the rod that attaches to the hammer cam, it's a close fit and I suspect a thinner OD diameter spring will fit better.

Artificer said:

Bless M.D. for offering to make one for you. Many full time gunsmiths will not touch this kind of work because they don't understand or do this work much or at all, or the time involved can or will wind up costing them money.

Personally, I would most strongly suggest you send the whole lock to him, including all the bits and pieces. That would allow him to get the correct length, number of coils and ensure it works.

Gus

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My thoughts exactly. I'd rather send it out to someone who knows about flintlocks and get the correct spring.

I got so utterly tired of trying to locate specific spring sizes for various projects or repairs so learned to make them from a friend I was helping to teach how to run a mill and lathe.
He read about it in an old mechanics manual and shared the idea with me. I was really excited about it because all I needed now was to go down to the local hobby shop and get about any diameter piano wire needed to wind coils.
Wasn't long before we were making our own coil springs. I took it a little farther and learned how to wind lever coils as well like are used on various types of older single shot and lever guns.
These are often called torsion springs but are really not.
Actually a flat V spring for most flint locks take longer to make and have to be heat treated where as coil springs do not. They are wound on a mandrel with a stretching tool with the wire already heat treated.
I guess necessity really is the mother of invention, better yet just copy some one else's good ideas which what I most often do. :rotf:
PM me Jaan .

Send that lock to Alaska. Happily pay for two and install the second one under the butt plate.

Solutions to these sort of problems are seldom so nicely presented on a silver platter, jump on it.

You mentioned odd stuff showing up in Maine. Same thing north of you in N.B. In my experience alot of the neat stuff is left behind gifts given as tokens of appreciation by sports at the conclusion of moose/bear hunts. Seen a literal shed full of fine european arms years ago all gifts from grateful sports. Recipient did not feel it was right to sell them and they just piled up There is a shop in Mcadam that boggles the mind with stock of 'seldom seens'

Yes, I can do a better job of fitting a coil if I have the whole shebang.
Looks interesting,I'll take some pictures and post them on here of how I make the spring so we all can get in on the fun.

Looking forward to it. Not much chance to see back action flintlocks.

Yep, good advice, send it to him, the whole gun if he wants it.




Good luck
William Alexander

All I'll need is the lock so I can test the different wire sizes to get the right length and fit the spring wire and coil diameters to the guide clearances.
Bill of Billnpatti has a mules ear rifle he couldn't find a hammer spring for so the two of us working together on this forum finally worked out a combination that I sent him and he said solved the problem.
I like to here back on these deals to see how it is holding up so I can keep improving things on my end.
I do have a couple single shot rifles to build yet this winter but a coil spring or two won't mess up the schedule.

Possibly this isn't the first time the spring has been replaced.....the replacement spring might have been too short and 2 washers were used to make up the difference.

Bring the hammer to full cock and check the available space for the new spring. That dim and the spring length at hammer down should give you an idea for a new spring that won't break.....Fred