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Looking to do my first build some ? About smoothies

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shotgunner87 said:
Looking to build my first flinter and I'm leaning towards a "smooth rifle". My only concern is that it will primarily be a deer gun. Can you get 4 to 5 inch groups at 80 to 100 yards out of a smooth bore with s round ball?
I am assuming that you have wood and metal working experience that will take a collection of parts to a shootable gun. I expect to spend 200 hours or more to smooth the parts and fit wood to metal. What kit are you considering?

Now as to getting that smoothbore shooting 6 inch groups at 100 yards will take a lot of practice. Most of us after all manner of load development and practice accept that hunting success is greatly improved if we limit our shooting distance to 50 yards.
 
Probably not going to do a kit. Been talking to a builder who's willing to help me. His philosophy is you don't pay someone to make love to your wife. Why would you pay someone to stroke the curves of your stock. I work for a landscaping company and our hours get cut way back over the winter. My wife says I need something to keep me busy so I don't bug her all winter. 😜

Little rough on the metal working part but made a fair amount of furniture with my dad and carved with my grandfather so not to worried about the woodworking part.
 
We have had good luck with a Carolina Gun. It has been excellent to 75 yards with a 610 ball and lubed Spanish moss as wadding...no patch.

Honestly I would prefer a Trade Gun over a Smooth Rifle. If I was going to go through all the quirks in shaping a rifle...it would be a rifle.

The Carolina Guns commonly are found with rear sights close to the breech. The sights are course but, hey you cant argue with success. Really they act like peep sights.

This deer was taken last year at 25 yards.
My son took a hog at 74 with it.

Here are the sights. You can see how close they are to the breech. They work well.

I recommend at least a 42" barrel for a big game ball gun. Clay Smith has "Bumford" parts sets for these with 46" barrels...even better.

Link Smith Bumford

I know you said you may not use a kit but here is one I feel is excellent.

I had a good many guns but that Carolina Style Trade Gun of my son's is the real deal. It's a serious big game smoothbore. It was in 1740...and it is now.
 
Thanks 54ball. I have never heard of the Carolina gun I will look into that. I've done some research and I am going to do a true fowling piece as apposed to a smooth rifle for my smooth bore. Now just what to build first?
 
My advice ...A Large lock, Rear sights and a barrel at least 42" with 46" being great. Some originals were over 50".
Bore size.... 20 to 24 balls to the pound. .620 to .580 :)
 
I concur with Zonie's impressions. At 50 yards, the biggest difference in a smooth bore is the question of whether you have a rear sight or not. A smooth rifle is a good compromise at 50 or even 75 yards if you're shooting ball a lot. The fowler can group well too, but the lack of a rear sight gets harder at 50 yards. Beyond 75 yards, rear sight or not, I like the rifle.

The strong point of the smooth bore is versatility at medium and short distances.
 
So the consensus is 60 and in good to go with a smoothie anything outside of 60 better off with a rifle?
 
shotgunner87 said:
So the consensus is 60 and in good to go with a smoothie anything outside of 60 better off with a rifle?
I would guess that the majority on the board would say 60 and in for rifles, too.

Spence
 
Okay so maybe a dumb question then. If you guys are telling me 50 yards with a smoothie and the rifled guys say the same thing then why get a rifle for big game hunting?
 
shotgunner87 said:
Okay so maybe a dumb question then. If you guys are telling me 50 yards with a smoothie and the rifled guys say the same thing then why get a rifle for big game hunting?
Cuzz a lot of people live in areas where they need to take 80-100 yard shots?

Not everyone lives in a jungle where it's hard to see over 40 yards without a tree in the way. :grin:
 
shotgunner87 said:
Okay so maybe a dumb question then. If you guys are telling me 50 yards with a smoothie and the rifled guys say the same thing then why get a rifle for big game hunting?
That's a question I've never seen answered. I believe the majority of rifle shooters, though, will sight their deer guns for 50 yards and give a wide variety of reasons for doing so. That's been true for at least the last 40 years, and I predict it won't change anytime soon.

Spence
 
Humm... That's interesting. Things are looking good for the smoothie for the build. Now the question is which one. I'm having issues finding info on fowlers built by Lancaster, pa gun makers. I'm from Lancaster so that's the reason. What would be historically accurate for a pre rev fowler in Lancaster?
 
You need a copy of Tom Grinslade's book , flintlock fowlers the first guns made in America.
 
George said:
shotgunner87 said:
Okay so maybe a dumb question then. If you guys are telling me 50 yards with a smoothie and the rifled guys say the same thing then why get a rifle for big game hunting?
That's a question I've never seen answered. I believe the majority of rifle shooters, though, will sight their deer guns for 50 yards and give a wide variety of reasons for doing so. That's been true for at least the last 40 years, and I predict it won't change anytime soon.

Spence

Personally, I think 60 yards is a good practical limit for Offhand shooting UNLESS one practices at longer ranges. Many people cannot or will not practice shooting offhand at 100 yards or longer distances, so that is probably a good thing. Many folks won't use cross sticks or at least one stick to support their guns, either, when a natural rest is not available.

I have also found a LOT of hunters don’t know what the “Point Blank Range” is of their guns. Here is a link for others who may be interested in it and it WORKS!! It takes a lot of the guesswork out of aiming for elevation, though one still has to hold off for windage. http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/trajectories.html

OH, don’t forget that when aiming EITHER uphill or downhill, one has to aim BELOW the normal target area or you will shoot too high. Best to get some practice in on this as well to see how much you have hold below when doing such shooting. One hunter in our club was up in a Tree Stand and did not realize this. The Buck he shot at was only 30 yards from his tree, but he missed with three shots. I had asked who was shooting the “Full Auto Shotgun” and did that person actually hit anything? When he answered he did not hit the deer and said he was in a tree stand, I replied, “I bet you shot over him, eh?” He thought about it for a moment and replied, “Well, I did see the shot hit the ground behind him on the third shot.” So I gave him and others a short class to him and others on trajectory.

Where I hunted in Virginia, most of the time 60 yards was plenty for shooting around there. Further west in or around the mountains, they get longer shots. Occasionally one might get a 100 to MAYBE a 200 yard shot, but most hunters I know or heard about around there have never practiced at 100 yards, let alone further. Many of those guys also could not estimate range very well. So even if they had a rifle and could take a 100 to 125 yard shot, it would not have done them much good.

Thankfully, I don’t HAVE to shoot a deer to survive, so I have passed on some shots I was not SURE I could cleanly kill the deer even when I have practiced 100 and 200 yard Offhand shooting and I know where my guns will hit at different ranges and angles.
Gus
 
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I do my best to not shoot offhand while hunting. I practice it out to 60 yards or so but I don shoot offhand at game unless it's inside 40 yards.
 
I practice off hand for all my shooting but when hunting I'll take a brace if possible. If there's nothing to brace on and time allows I'll sit down on the ground and brace my elbows on my knees for a sitting shot.
 
shotgunner87 said:
Okay so maybe a dumb question then. If you guys are telling me 50 yards with a smoothie and the rifled guys say the same thing then why get a rifle for big game hunting?

Interesting topic and a lot of responses. But some issues are still not addressed. Do wat ye want because ye want to. If ye want to hunt with a smoothie, do it. But do understand the combination of an antique style firearm, less accurate smooth bore and maybe no rear sight, you are limiting your range. Not unlike a bow hunter who chooses that method over a scoped, britch loader boomer.
The mention of 60 yards is interesting. Historically, 60 yards was a common range for competition. I believe even in the founding years of the NMLRA that was the most popular range for matches. Dunno :idunno: why or when 50 yards became the standard.
 
Same here. Helps hold steady when the heart is pumping a mile a minute :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :grin:
 
Artificer said:
Personally, I think 60 yards is a good practical limit for Offhand shooting UNLESS one practices at longer ranges.
In order to try helping shotgunner87 decide which gun he ends up with I was discussing the capabilities of the guns, not the shooters. Personally, I never shoot offhand if I can avoid it, regardless of the range.

The Buck he shot at was only 30 yards from his tree, but he missed with three shots.
Now that's my kind of deer, steady to shot like a good birddog. Our Kentucky deer aren't that tolerant, first shot at 30 yards and they are off like a shot.

Whenever you mention sighting guns for longer distances, people seem to assume that means you have to take long shots. 'Taint so. I've shot a lot of deer with my smoothbore, which is set up for longer ranges, and I've practiced shooting it at long distances a fair bit, but my furtherest kill has been 70 yards. The difference is that I know my guns are capable of greater ranges and that I can hit the spot further out if conditions are just right and I decide to do so.

I've worked hard to find the capabilities of my guns, and have them set up to take advantage of that if the need arises. My smoothbore is sighted for 75 yards, point blank range of 87 yards, and I would take a 100 yard shot if things were just right. My rifle is sighted for 100 yards, point blank range of 115 yards, and I have proven to myself that I can hit the vital zone of a deer at 150 yards with it.

There is a distinct difference in the capabilities of smoothbores and rifles, but you have to understand that difference and set about using it. Sighting both at 50 yards doesn't do that.

Spence
 
Rifleman1776 said:
shotgunner87 said:
Okay so maybe a dumb question then. If you guys are telling me 50 yards with a smoothie and the rifled guys say the same thing then why get a rifle for big game hunting?

Interesting topic and a lot of responses. But some issues are still not addressed. Do wat ye want because ye want to. If ye want to hunt with a smoothie, do it. But do understand the combination of an antique style firearm, less accurate smooth bore and maybe no rear sight, you are limiting your range. Not unlike a bow hunter who chooses that method over a scoped, britch loader boomer.
The mention of 60 yards is interesting. Historically, 60 yards was a common range for competition. I believe even in the founding years of the NMLRA that was the most popular range for matches. Dunno :idunno: why or when 50 yards became the standard.

Interesting indeed. When I became a deputy sheriff in the 1970's, we shot the PPC course, (Practical Police Course), out to 60 yards with a hand gun. Not too difficult with the 6" Colt Trooper MKIII, I carried at the time, and completely doable with any muzzleloader. Keep yer powder dry.......Robin :wink:
 
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