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I had a thought (it happens sometimes) that made me curious.

What kind of long arms would an 18thC private ship keep on board? I believe the modern India made Ships Carbines aren't representative of a known weapon, the original ships Bess's being longer I think. However, a merchant ship setting sail in the mid 18C would had weapons of some kind? Presumably short smoothbores as well as pistols. Probably made by a local gunmaker. It also follows that the ships Captain/Owner may have had a nicer example made for himself. Perhaps a young Marine Officer would have an appropriate gun made for himself.

The same question can also be asked of a privateer. For their intended work they certainly would have been well armed. I've read that it wasn't unheard of for an early 18C "pirate" vessel to have only small arms and maybe a couple of swivel guns. Apparently Blackbeard got his start in just such a vessel.

Do we know of any surviving guns with a Naval history? Perhaps this is a historical justification for shortish, better than military quality, smoothbore guns.

Just food for thought and discussion.
 
My readings indicate a lot of pistols when pirates were boarding. Officers on ships being attacked has several pistols as well. Pirate ships often were smaller and faster than the merchants they were attacking. Pirates did have cannon but not as many and not as big as real warships. They depended more on surprise and tactics to overcome the bigger ships. I recall references to muskets but no details as to what kind. Carbine length Besses and Charlys maybe?
 
Ships under the French flag (late 1600s to really early 1700s) had to carry at least 12 Fusil de Boucanier muskets that were then to be sold to the colony they were to trade at. Each landowner had to arm themselves and each adult slave.

FdBs are long in barrel length and big in the bore.

On naval ships, the marine detachments would be armed (generically) w/ the marine version of the infantry arm, mostly trimmed in brass.
 
Navies got issued military guns, civilians bought civilian arms. A master at arms aboard did care for small arms aboard at that time( in addition to police function on larger vessels) he and the on board black smith could repair and alter wepones as needed.
 
Please understand I am not trying to be critical of you or your interest, but you seem to be jumping around a bit, historically speaking.

A Marine Officer may have had a privately purchased Officer's Fusil and it could have been as fancy as his pocket book allowed - because he had to buy it. Normally a Carbine length barrel around 37" and often/usually .66 Caliber, especially after the first half of the century. However, Marine Officers did not serve on Privateer's except in possibly some rare circumstance I am not familiar with OR they might have been a passenger on a Privateer or Merchant Ship. A Regular Marine Officer served aboard a King's Ship, not a Privateer.

A Privateer or Merchant Captain may have had some kind of "long gun," but more likely he had a sword and pistol/s as his defensive weapons, because his job in a fight was to direct the ship and crew as "His" offensive weapon. He might have had a blunderbuss in case of a Mutiny, as well.

In the 18th century, British Navy Ships had normally two types of muskets on board. These were known as short "Black" Muskets for Ship's Crew and long "Bright" Muskets for Landing Parties and for Marines.

The "Black" Muskets are probably close to what you are looking for. Their intended use was for small boat work, night attacks and cutting out parties. P1738 and P1752 Black "Short" Muskets had barrels of 36 to 38 inches. The barrels were somewhat roughly draw filed and "blackened" in the period terminology or charcoal/heat blued to help keep them from rusting in storage. The locks normally were bright, but sometimes were also blackened and were cheaper "flat" faced locks. Generally, Sea Service Muskets were made as cheap as possible, but still serviceable and not to the same quality as Land Service Arms.

During most of the 18th century, British Sea Service Musket barrels came from old, obsolete, worn or damaged Long Land Muskets or from Dutch Arms the British were forced to buy at times to fill an urgent need. Thus many of them had the worn barrels "freshed out" to .78 caliber, though they still used ammunition for the standard .76 cal. Land Pattern Muskets.

Privateers and Merchant ships were not known for spending a lot of money on Ship's Muskets. Most PROBABLY came from obsolete/surplus Military Muskets that Factors purchased in lots from Government "surplus" sales and then reworked to sell "to the Trade," which simply meant (most times) sold to civilians. They also used serviceable captured weapons, so that might have been anything available in the period.

Oh, it is possible a fancier arm could have been captured by a Privateer and then used at the Captain's Discretion. Arms were NORMALLY kept locked and the Captain or First Mate or Purser were the only ones to have the keys to those locks, again to forestall mutiny.

Gus
 
The Pennsylvania Gazette
September 26, 1745
Just imported from London,...muskets for privateering,

The Pennsylvania Gazette
November 2, 1758
For NEVIS, directly, The Letter of Marque Snow SADLER, William Fitzherbert, Master; Compleatly fitted with Close Quarters, has two Thirds of her Cargoe engaged, and may sail in fifteen Days. For Freight or Passage, treat with Kearny and Gilbert, or said Commander, at Lloyd Wharff.
Just imported in the above Snow from Bristol, and to be sold by said KEARNY and GILBERT, near Walnut street Wharf, Iron Cannon, six Pounders, Swivel Guns, six, four and three Pound round and double headed Shot, Swivel ditto, Musket Balls, Musquetoons, Muskets, whole stocked ditto, with Bayonets

The Pennsylvania Gazette
July 27, 1758
To be SOLD by KEARNY and GILBERT, Double fortified Four Pound Guns with Carriages, Swivel Guns, Musquetoons , Cartouch Boxes, and Cannon, Swivel, and Musquet Ball.

The Pennsylvania Packet
November 28, 1778
Gentlemen fitting out privateers may be furnished with the following articles, viz. muskets, musket and pistol balls, ladles and worms; rammer, spunge and ladle heads; flintstocks, dressed sheepskins, priming wires and bitts, tomkins, cartridge formers, musket and pistol flints, deepsea and hand leads and lines, cutlasses, pikes, lances, best kind of horn lanthorns, log lines, log reels, budge barrels, cartridge boxes, powder horns, &c. &.c
N.B. Ready money for muskets, pistols, or any other articles in the privateer way.

Spence
 
Log lines and reels are used to measure the speed of the ship. The log line has knots in it, thus the use of the terms knots for nautical speed. It reflects how many knots reeled out in a given time, measured with a sand glass. All very mathematical, you know.

Meantime, the rest of the crew are using all those ship's weapons.

Spence
 
Don't think you're being critical at all.

I know formal Marines would have been on Naval vessels, I've just never seen it considered what kind of weapon they might buy for their own use, aside from pistols, and if it was something special or weird. Maybe a configuration of shortish smoothbore and manner of decoration (Nautical themed)that hasn't really been explored.

It also stands to reason that a person equipping a privateer would want a good number of small arms. Maybe rifles as well. It seems like killing as much of the crew as possible while doing no real damage to the target vessel would be the best case scenario.

I've always thought that a rifle or two, or CERTAINLY, a wall gun might be just the thing to help convince a ship being pursued to strike it's colors and to drive men down off of the rigging.

Just brainstorming really.
 
British Marines were not allowed to fire from the "Fighting Tops" or from the rigging as there was too much concern it might cause the sails to catch fire. However, French and Continental American Marines (later to be known as U.S. Marines after the AWI) did fight from the fighting tops and rigging, though there is no evidence any of these Regular Marines ever used rifles to my knowledge, just muskets and hand grenades.

HOWEVER in the AWI, some Virginia (Commonwealth) Marines WERE known to be armed with Rifles from those stationed in and around Fredericksburg, VA. These were rifles they owned personally and brought with them when they enlisted.

Though Fredericksburg is 50 miles from the Ocean, the Rappahannock River was/is tidal and ocean going merchant ships frequently used Fredericksburg as a port in the 18th century. The Virginia Navy Ship Dragon, was launched in 1777 to protect the Iron Works/Arsenal and the Marines were to serve aboard that ship.

Unfortunately, I do not know of an action or battle those rifles were used in as the British never sent Armed Sloops up the Rappahannock to threaten the Armory. The Dragon also patrolled as far as the Chesapeake, but I have no knowledge if it went into action or not there.

Gus
 
Supercracker said:
I've always thought that a rifle or two, or CERTAINLY, a wall gun might be just the thing to help convince a ship being pursued to strike it's colors and to drive men down off of the rigging.
The Pennsylvania Gazette
February 26, 1745
PHILADELPHIA
This Ship carries 24 6 and 9 Pounders upon her Main deck, 40 Swivels and 30 Swivel Blunderbusses , with 160 Men.

Spence
 
There is an excellent little book about privateers in the AWI by Dr. C. Keith Wilbur which I highly recommend. Most educational, and very well done, with many excellent drawing. It is "Pirates and Patriots of the Revolution". It discusses the individual small arms used, as well as swivel blunderbusses and swivels.

Spence
 
Artificer said:
British Marines were not allowed to fire from the "Fighting Tops" or from the rigging as there was too much concern it might cause the sails to catch fire. However, French and Continental American Marines (later to be known as U.S. Marines after the AWI) did fight from the fighting tops and rigging, though there is no evidence any of these Regular Marines ever used rifles to my knowledge, just muskets and hand grenades.

It was my understanding that the prohibition of marines in the tops was a result of one of Lord Nelsons peculiar fears and thus didn't become the norm til after he rose to prominence. I don't think that was the case until late 18C.
 
Even as late as the war of 1812 there were fears that American frigates had was the exposed helm was open to small arm fire from the tops. United States had a 'round house ' built to provide a an extra cabin aft and a poop protecting the helm. It ruined her trim and she was the worst sailor of the first three frigates.Nelson had fear of them after the Nile, but they never went away.Captians had almost cartblanch over how they fought thier ships, and would only face censure if somthing went wrong.
 
Supercracker said:
Artificer said:
British Marines were not allowed to fire from the "Fighting Tops" or from the rigging as there was too much concern it might cause the sails to catch fire. However, French and Continental American Marines (later to be known as U.S. Marines after the AWI) did fight from the fighting tops and rigging, though there is no evidence any of these Regular Marines ever used rifles to my knowledge, just muskets and hand grenades.

It was my understanding that the prohibition of marines in the tops was a result of one of Lord Nelsons peculiar fears and thus didn't become the norm til after he rose to prominence. I don't think that was the case until late 18C.

I think it became "Standard Practice" because of Lord Nelson, but it is my understanding it went further back in the British Navy before then.

Gus
 
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